Coming soon, Group Recommendations
Over the years we’ve received a great deal of feedback from Yahoo! Group members, that while they love the groups they are currently members of, it’s often very difficult for them to discover other relevant groups that they might also be interested in joining. In response to this feedback, the Yahoo! Groups team is testing a new feature that will make this process easier and surface recommended groups based on common members between groups. These recommendations will appear in the right hand column of Groups emails.
Here’s an example of what the new group emails will look like:
For example, if there are many common members between Minions of Evil Leonard and Feline_tamer, then the Feline_tamer group will be recommended to members of Minions of Evil Leonard. The goal is to help you connect with other people you share common interests with, so recommendations will only be made between groups that have members in common. All members within a group will see the same recommendations.
***UPDATE***
Jami Heldt
Groups Community Manager
Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs)
Why are you recommending groups to me that I am already a member of?
The recommendations are based at the group level, not at the individual member level. That is, we are only looking at groups that share members. Future enhancements of this feature will exclude your existing memberships.
Recommendations are made by looking at your group and finding other groups that share common members. If there is enough overlap between members, we will recommend the group. Future enhancements of this feature will include more relevant recommendations to you.
You can remove your group from the Yahoo Group directory to make it unlisted if you do not want it to appear in recommendations. However, we highly encourage you to stay listed as this will help interested members find you.
Mohammed said,
March 13, 2008 @ 6:48 pm
really good service it will make our groups more popular !
but i wonder from this question
I don’t want my group to be recommended. Do I have a choice?
who don’t want his group get more members ?
thanks
http://www.smasra.com
Denise said,
March 13, 2008 @ 7:53 pm
so we may have other groups being “spammed” on our group that we may actually oppose. will there be a means to turn this feature off?
Sandy said,
March 13, 2008 @ 7:54 pm
is this group thing on the side of the e-mails an option or not for the group owner? I don’t want other groups advertising to my members via my groups post/ e-mail. all those huge thing also have always messed up the text format of the e-mail and makes posts via e-mail harder to read. is that only going to be on New and Improved mail settings, or traditioal as well?
Vijay Barve said,
March 13, 2008 @ 7:57 pm
Interesting feature. I really look forward to it. How soon will it come [:)]
All the best.
Vijay
Jan said,
March 13, 2008 @ 7:58 pm
I also want to know if this feature can be turned off.
Jack said,
March 13, 2008 @ 7:58 pm
This sounds like a great idea! I am glad that you haven’t given up on Yahoo Groups. There is real potential there.
Aseem Kaistha said,
March 13, 2008 @ 8:03 pm
Sounds very interesting and no doubt very good… Lets see how it outcome finally!!!
Gloria said,
March 13, 2008 @ 8:04 pm
This _must_ be an option that a listowner can turn off. To prevent advertising, I do not permit the posting of URLs for other Y-Groups lists in messages sent to my lists.
So now Y-Groups intends to spam my lists’ messages with other Y-Groups that _they feel_ would be of interest.
If you want to help Y-Groups individual members find better and more interesting groups then improve your SEARCH feature at Y-Groups…. Leave it up to List Owners as to what is and is not permitted in their list messages… aside from your normal advertising..
Connie said,
March 13, 2008 @ 8:06 pm
I think this idea is terrible. Many groups I run or are a member of do not want to be lumped with other related type lists. If they want to join another list they can do like the rest of us do and search the group listings.
I certainly hope there is a way to turn this off as I can only imagine all the bitching and complaining I am going to hear from my list members about it
klk said,
March 13, 2008 @ 8:07 pm
I agree with the need to have this feature turned off. I have some private groups (currently not in the directory) and would not want them recommended to others.
Chrissy said,
March 13, 2008 @ 8:07 pm
Hmm I like the idea of recommending groups.But I would like it better if you had in on the group.(Like you do for Yahoo Answers).But it will be fun to see how this goes.
Kathie M. Thomas said,
March 13, 2008 @ 8:08 pm
What if I don’t want a group promoted in my forum emails? Do we get a choice of who is and isn’t? At this stage all I see is that if there are similar members amongst groups they are more likely to be groups that meet the same needs and could ideally be seen as competitors.
Lynn said,
March 13, 2008 @ 8:08 pm
Don’t like it being included on emails; looks just like spam and ads, and I can’t imagine who would actually pay attention to it.
More to the point, when most of us say we want to be able to find groups more easily, we do NOT, repeat NOT, mean that we want some program attempting to read our minds or worse yet, deciding that common membership in groups means that the program can figure out what we want to do next.
What “find groups more easily ” means is “make it easier to search for groups and get relevant hits when searching”.
It does not mean : make email unreadable with all the ads and sidebars cluttering up the limited screen real estate.
Lisa Jeffris said,
March 13, 2008 @ 8:15 pm
I would not want my members to have to be spammed by other members advertising the other lists. They joined my group for a reason and one of them is because I don’t allow others to advertise their lists.
Roger said,
March 13, 2008 @ 8:20 pm
I don’t like the idea. There should be a way to opt out without removing group from the directory.
Flyingfree45 said,
March 13, 2008 @ 8:24 pm
The way I read it, we as group owners will only be able to ‘turn it off’ if we de-list from the directory.
This will be a fatal error to the groups as we know them.
Instead of groups having their own identity, soon we will have such overlapping memberships, that the smaller groups will do one of two things, get bigger and less personal or get less posting because people may not have time for multiple groups.
The bigger groups will reach critical mass, become too busy and unmanagable and eventually fall apart.
Believe it or not, some groups start because the members think differently and want to start their own. You’re just homogenizing groups by listing the very group they left to start a new one. Let groups have their own Identity.
What you’re doing is destroying the Groups by doing this.
My suggestion? Make a better way to search the current directory, delete headless groups if there’s no activity (or contact the active members to name a new head) and categorize better.
Please don’t do this! I’d hate to de-list from the directory but I can take 10 groups with memberships from 200-5000 members out of the directory.
Dee said,
March 13, 2008 @ 8:25 pm
It’s not a good idea. Yahoo could have done a better job by redefining the search options. This is going to be trouble. I certainly hope this can be turned off!
Chrissy said,
March 13, 2008 @ 8:25 pm
me again.Reading comments I didn’t think of spam and yes I can see group members griping about it.And Group owners getting mad about having to compete with competitors.I to have a strict rule in my group about spam.The more I think about it the more I’m not liking this.
Marenda said,
March 13, 2008 @ 8:27 pm
I do not like this new feature at all as I only allow limited approved advertising to my groups. As a group owner I hope I will have the option of turning off this feature. Bad idea!
Peter said,
March 13, 2008 @ 8:29 pm
I have to echo what Sandy said March 13, 2008 @ 7:54pm. Will group owners be able to turn this off. Already for the last year we have had to put up with the Sidebar to the right of all messages passed through the group that about 20% of the time ends up covering the right hand side of wide messages. I think Yahoo should spend more time making sure its existing features are working properly all the time before adding something new. I also think that when something goes wrong, the best engineers to fix the problem are the ones who created the feature and therefore are intimately familiar with the software code they wrote. Yahoo rarely seems to get things fixed up 100%.
HOWARD A. STAFFORD said,
March 13, 2008 @ 8:30 pm
Hey Jami, this is a brilliant idea, and now that I realize, it should have been thought of before. Yahoo! has been my fav service since day 1 and always pleased to see you keeping it fresh and constant evolving improvements. I am really looking forward to the new idea.
Wishing all the staff and members the very best.
Have fun, be well,
Howard
Betty said,
March 13, 2008 @ 8:52 pm
I am totally opposed to this feature. As a list member, I don’t want to be “spammed” with other groups. As an owner, I don’t want my lists to be spammed either. I have very specific lists — one of which is a replacement for a very similar one that became nothing but an adult-oriented spam list when the owner disappeared. I certainly don’t want that one included as spam on my list. What if a list owner has set their list to approve new members. If there is a general posting that goes to hundreds of lists, then the owner may be overwhelmed by the number of people trying to join their list at one time.
I really hope this is not implemented. Even if owners are given the option to opt-out, I still don’t want to be “spammed” as a member of lists that I have sought out.
Thanks
Betty
Joy Jacob said,
March 13, 2008 @ 9:01 pm
The proposed feature should have a provision to be switched off by the group owner.
Fuchsia East said,
March 13, 2008 @ 9:02 pm
It seems to me that Yahoo would be providing a much better service if it took the time to refine its search features. I’ve searched for groups that I know exist, as I’ve checked them first to be certain, only to discover the Yahoo search engine thinks it no longer exists.
I’m very strict about spam in my group, and my members appreciate that. More than one person has been banned for spamming, and I was finally forced to change my settings to new members’ posts having to be approved in advance by me, which I did with great loathing.
If someone wants to list their group or website in my Links section, I have no objection to that, as long as they’re relevant to the subject of my group. I check every single link periodically, and remove non-relevant and dead ones.
I sincerely hope you’ll reconsider this decision, and at least give group owners the option of turning off this new feature if they wish to do so. I’ve seen far too many groups that have simply been let go, then overrun by spam. I’d close my group before I’d allow that to happen.
Thank you for the opportunity to have our say in this matter.~Bountifully, Fuchsia
Kim said,
March 13, 2008 @ 9:06 pm
Oh no! Please, please have an option that this can be blocked on a group. We do not permit our members to promote other groups in our group and certainly don’t want this option to leave our control.
Please make it go away as an option.
Peter said,
March 13, 2008 @ 9:07 pm
Referencing back to the comment I left at March 13, 2008 @ 8:29 pm (times shown are PDT) referring to the sidebar covering wide messages, how about adding a “print view” button so messages can be printed from the group site without the sidebar, bottom bar and message navigation tools appearing in the “print” view. Similarly, when printing group messages back at an e-mailer’s in-box, the “print” button should exclude the sidebar (especially when it’s covering wide messages) and the bottom bar.
Jeanne said,
March 13, 2008 @ 9:08 pm
I share the same concerns as many others have written here – I don’t want to be spammed with the information about other groups. Improve your search system for people who are searching for a new group of interest to join. I’ve had lists for years, and list owners use to always share the courtesy of not advertising or promoting other groups on the list without at least asking the list owner if she/he minded. Some people are mainly concerned with numbers only – they want quantity, not quality in their memberships so they can brag that they have more members than any other group in their category. So what? Is this a competition? Do we want to keep groups as something we enjoy or is it going to become a contest of who has the most members, etc.?
It’s bad enough dealing with the spammers we have now. They join lists with new Yahoo ID’s and profiles and then advertise their junk – from singles groups to porn and so forth. Those pornsters – they will do anything to get their message across and if we are interested in that sort of junk, anyone can find it in seconds on the internet anywhere.
I prefer the traditional format, because I too, do not like the print running over posts as it often does. Especially for groups that are for graphics, digital art, digital photography, etc. If you decide to go along with this, please give owners the option of opted out of this plan and don’t force us to go private because we won’t go along with the program. I don’t think that’s fair.
Also, for years, on Yahoo groups, there have always been groups of people who like to stir the pot, as we say, and will join groups to cause trouble and problems. It’s not as bad as it once was – but it still happens. I belonged to a wonderful group and because of the petty jealousy of others they harassed the group so much, the list owner moved her group to google. I like Yahoo groups, I’ve been a list owner since 1999 and I have no plans on leaving – but if we keep getting things like this forced down our throats, more and more people will be leaving and heading for Google groups and other groups that are not as intrusive as these suggestions can sometimes be.
If it works, leave it alone, as they say.
Thank you!
Donna said,
March 13, 2008 @ 9:13 pm
I certainly hope this will be optional. If I want to look for similar groups, I just go to Yahoo Groups home, then enter the topic in the search window and that will usually generate many similar type groups. Maybe the description isn’t clear, but I really see no reason for it.
Richard B said,
March 13, 2008 @ 9:16 pm
The idea is great, but the actual page looks very cluttered with a lot of stuff presented in a lot of different styles. Could it be tidied up a bit.
Emmy said,
March 13, 2008 @ 9:43 pm
I would consider this spam. I do not permit other groups to be advertised on my group. Its actually considered rude or even spamming by many group owners to try to solicite members from one group to another. I do NOT want this to appear in my group emails, and I do not want to delist my group either.
Why not just improve the group search features so that members can find groups they are interested in with more ease, rather than making changes that the owners do not all want?
Diane said,
March 13, 2008 @ 9:47 pm
I hate this new idea !!!! I don’t want more ads going to My Group!
Why doesn’t Yahoo Groups just improve it’s Search capabilities for compatible Groups?
Annie said,
March 13, 2008 @ 9:51 pm
Oh no! There are already inappropriate Yahoo! Answers/Questions appearing on a couple groups I moderate just because there is the word “leather” in the group’s name! Trust me, it has nothing to do with what some of those people are talking about. Yes, I have set that option to “Don’t Show This” to avoid embarrassment.
If you feel you must do this, then please provide the option to turn it off! Some groups simply do not fit the same same sensibilities as others. By being listed in the Directory, we are already setting ourselves up for spam. That is why our groups’ settings are “Membership requires approval” and “Messages from new members require approval.”
Please do reconsider. There is enough “noise” in this world.
Bill Sardone said,
March 13, 2008 @ 9:54 pm
A SEMI good idea.
I think there are a lot of other issues that are much more important and pleasing to group members. Such as searchable photo albums. Increased size of photo albums. IN fact…photo albums that have “gallery” type functions.
Having “other groups that are similar” is nice..but unless I have the option of choosing what those groups are…it just be leave a negative slant on my group messages.
Example. I run a certain type of tractor group. There were others out there (and still are) that did the same thing, owner disappeared, opened membership to all. And unmoderated. It has all the web cam spammers, etc. Yahoo will not do anything to change ownership Yahoo will not help us out with trying to add a moderator. Yahoo does nothing on those sites to suppress the spam.
Since that is still an “active” site, it would probably be associated with mine as “another group”.
So…if I can pick and choose what groups are in that association box..it is a good idea. If not….you are wasting your marketing energy…and making it more difficult for owner/moderators…and in reality the group members.
Let me know your thoughts.
Thanks
Bill
Cher said,
March 13, 2008 @ 10:02 pm
I do not want my private groups posted like this, featuer neded to turn it off…also, how fairly will representavie groups be protrayed if everyone wants to be advertised, eg out of 500 avian groups whose will get put up and by wht methods are they chosen??? We need to insure fairness here and it seems it will be dificut to achieve.
I ned to advertise my non private groups, however so how do I know they will be shown? To who and where, how, etc?
Would not want to increase spam, you know?
I used to be on over a dozen avian groups so had tons of members on my lists bbut now am handicapped and on only a fwe groups wehre advertisig is not allowed eg species specific list…so we have the same folks for about 10 years and we aer few in number…we really need a better way to advertises our own groups at our own discretion it seems to me. That would be more helpful to me andn for my group members. G
Cher BIRDWISE
Vicki Meldrum said,
March 13, 2008 @ 10:25 pm
Why would we want to advertise groups Yahoo thinks our members would like to join? As a list owner, I work hard in building my group and making it successful and this will only serve to pull my membership away from my group to other groups and make my group less successful. I don’t want my group advertised in that way becasue I have strict criteria on who can join my group for the protection of my members. I have no problem with spammers now and I would have to remove my group from the directory if this is the only way to keep this feature off my group.
oklatom said,
March 13, 2008 @ 10:28 pm
I don’t have a bit of trouble using the search feature to find groups that I might be interested in. I don’t need you telling me I might be interested in something because someone in my group is in another group too, in fact I can see where it might embarrass someone if others knew all the groups they were in. Leave things alone that work, and concentrate of fixing the things that are broken.
Barb said,
March 13, 2008 @ 10:31 pm
I am not in favor of this at all! You can be assured that if there is a turn off switch I’ll hit it. We have enough junk already without some impersonal computer recommendation.
I say trash this idea before you ever get it going! It would have been nice to have been consulted about this before you set it in motion!!
I vote NO on this one! >:{
Brad Majors said,
March 13, 2008 @ 10:49 pm
I would rather see this list on the ‘My Groups’ page than with EVERY EMAIL that is sent through the group.
I belong to a couple of groups that are VERY high volume, sometime 50+messages each day in 5 groups. It would totally drive me away from Y! Groups to HAVE to see the same listing 200 times a day…
Debbie said,
March 13, 2008 @ 11:43 pm
And you are doing this because it was highly suggested? I find that hard to believe. I don’t mind ads in emails because ads are what keeps this service free, for which I am truly grateful. However, advertising of other groups in emails is a ridiculous idea.
As long as I, as group owner, can turn off these ads for other groups, then I’m ok with this.
Personally, I wouldn’t even want these ads on my groups’ home pages either.
The suggestion to improve the search feature for groups was the best idea.
big b said,
March 13, 2008 @ 11:45 pm
i dont know what is this but i jes time pass
RS said,
March 13, 2008 @ 11:56 pm
DOH! So close. Good idea, HORRIBLE IMPLEMENTATION PLAN.
You DON’T DO this in EVERY MAIL!? (a) Eats message room (b) clutters every message up (c) will it be part of the reply, hogging size when being re-delivered? (d) no control over the groups (suddenly my membership in Doll Collecting shows up for my Group on Harley Riding? NOT GOOD!!
(1) it sounds like you are opting us in by default with the only out option to be by removal from the directory. This is a terrible idea. Just as every terrible idea you have had has been. STOP doing this stuff! It drives us up the wall! Suddenly my group takes a hit, and I get the flak? No thanks!
(2) Leave this on the home page NOT EACH MESSAGE!! No offense, but are you high? We said on the beta we hated the banner at the top of the mails, what do you think us getting the same ads along side our message each time is worth to us? What possible logic could you have for doing this in such a poor manner?
(3) THE MODERATOR MUST HAVE CONTROL OVER THIS FEATURE. Simple: Use: Yes/No; Add group: Mod picks by url. End of story. Random = Bad. In messages is bad too. I’m glad you are at least asking us about these things before dropping them in. Please keep it up. But don’t be surprised when we tell you they were bad moves.
Remember what I have said before:
*Yahoo does not “get” us. For whatever reason you don’t understand how/why we use your groups, or what our desires are. This is a classic example of what NOT to do. The basic idea is even one I brought up a few times, but if I’d known this is what you’d heard I would have corrected myself ASAP. DO NOT DO THIS. PLEASE!!! Back to the drawing board. Hurry! Before you add another black eye to this product.
Last question: It looks like this is being added to the ‘Fully Featured’ format? If we stay traditional will we be safe from this terrible feature?
Once again, applying a one-size fits all feature where preference needs to be present for positive response. Ball: On floor. Hands: Covered in butter.
“Hear you nothing that I say?”
-Yoda
RS said,
March 14, 2008 @ 12:04 am
OK, Here’s your new plan if you have to do this.
(1) Moderator has full control over this module.
MOD can:
(o) Leave the feature off, and KEEP HIS GROUP REGISTERED!
(o) Apply as a module to the home page
(o) Apply as a teaser link at the BOTTOM of an e-mail, which gens a random group name.
(o) Let the MOD choose specific groups known to the members to be interesting. (This group recommends)
(o) Let the MOD choose to let Yahoo make recommendations at random, per your system. (Yahoo also recommends)
Please show us some respect by offering us options and functions and letting us do with it what you want. I’ve said before Yahoo is out of touch with us, and only offering optional features and tools will you succeed in reaching a varied market like ours. One size will never fit all and will get you this backlash and more as the eGroups functionality we all loved for years is drilled away at, piece by piece….the insult to the injury is you’ll be crowing over it and we’ll be effectively spit on…again..
Your process and assumptions are wrong about what we want. Start there.
Hazelton said,
March 14, 2008 @ 12:06 am
Yes. I agree with this completely. As people as they get frustrated with a group will then decide to leave the group and then decide to come back later. Then get frustrated with the group again and then decide to leave the group for good this time. Only to sometimes have secound thoughts later on and want to return back again.
Heather said,
March 14, 2008 @ 12:28 am
I think that advertising other groups to the members of my groups is a terrible idea. Why would you even do this? Whomever came up with this obviously does not use your groups! Just because a feature CAN be added doesn’t mean that folks need it to be added. I agree with one of the comments above about refining the search criteria. Spend the programming hours on that instead.
Lea said,
March 14, 2008 @ 12:32 am
I applaud the new format having direct links to the group’s Messages/Files/Photos/Links/Database/Polls/members/Calendar. Very handy especially for moderators!
I really wish the “Recent Activity” block could be moved to the top immediately over the “Group Recommendations” module. It seems “lost” down on the bottom right.
It appears that “Reply to Group” link is missing. If it is not included, our email only members who receive daily digest will be forced to reply using their email program Reply button. In turn, many will not realize they should trim the digest contents before sending their message to group. This will cause moderators extra work moderating/editing such and/or time “teaching” them how to trim their replies..
Most importantly – the two groups that I moderate have a strict rule against members posting messages containing links to their own or other groups. The “Recommended Groups” feature will defeat that purpose. I sincerely hope you will add an option for moderators to turn off this module similar to that of the Y! Answers module.
Meg said,
March 14, 2008 @ 12:45 am
Bad idea. I don’t want my group being advertised like that. Even though it’s “at group level” based on your tagging of groups held in common by members, it opens the door to my group members getting promotions of groups I don’t like, don’t respect, don’t want to be involved with, etc., and opens my group to invasions by undesirable members. If you don’t provide the means for a group owner to completely turn this off, I’ll pull all my groups out of YG. Period. To me, this is just another step in the direction of Grouplyfication. Why don’t you just refer all your users to Grouply? They do the same thing, and more.
ReduceReuseRecycle said,
March 14, 2008 @ 12:55 am
Why do you feel the need to mess around with something like this when the answer to your perceived problem is staring you in the face? FIX THE SEARCH PROBLEMS!
I agree with many of the previous posters, especially “RS said, March 13, 2008 @ 11:56 pm”, “Vicki Meldrum said, March 13, 2008 @ 10:25 pm”, and “Emmy said, March 13, 2008 @ 9:43 pm”.
Take this off the table– we don’t need or want it.
Plattenfuzzi said,
March 14, 2008 @ 1:09 am
I agree with many of the previous posters that the group owners should be able to turn this “feature” off. There are many good reasons why certain groups are not listed in the public accessible directory. I really don’t want to see these groups promoted in groups where everybody – search engines included – has access to the message archive.
Cheryl said,
March 14, 2008 @ 1:47 am
I hope there is a way to turn it off. I don’t like this at all.
Hal said,
March 14, 2008 @ 1:54 am
I have private groups, and this is the last thing I need. I’m glad to see the majority is against it, and I hope it simply goes away very quickly. Don’t need it, don’t want it, and my members might leave if this happens.
Paw Paw said,
March 14, 2008 @ 2:24 am
Reasons have been covered….
NO, this is unwanted….
Only troubles to existing groups can come of this.
It has taken years for many of the group owners, to build their groups as they have them now. Why, would they want to promote other groups, within their group??
Build a better main search engine, for all Yahoo groups…
Not force individual groups, to do what the Yahoo Search Engine, is suppose to be doing now.
Crystal said,
March 14, 2008 @ 2:26 am
Amazine, thats good service it will make our groups more popular !
but i wonder from this question
I don’t want my group to be recommended. Do I have a choice?
Can I get my blog listed in this group?
http://crystalart-in.blogspot.com
thanks
Crystal said,
March 14, 2008 @ 2:29 am
Really Interesting feature. I really look forward to it. How soon will it come [:)]
How can i get add my blog?/?
All the best.
jessi said,
March 14, 2008 @ 3:41 am
Hi,
In the group I’m co-owner of I created a file in the links section just for this purpose and to show other groups.
jessi
Gloria said,
March 14, 2008 @ 4:05 am
One more comment…. I hope (and am pretty sure) that YahooGroups knows that what they are proposing is exactly what Grouply.com created with their “socialization” aspect of their email “make it easy for you” program.
You do know, I’m sure, that Y-Groups listowners who were outraged by Grouply.com’s tactics influenced they to implement an “Opt-OUT” feature so that our list messages’ would not be harvested/ collected/ transferred to the Grouply.com website.
Please have the same foresight and courtesy only please make what you are proposing an OPT-IN feature, so that it is not defaulted as the “norm: method on our lists. IOW, a listowner would have to select the feature to have the “other lists ads” appear in his/her group list messages.
Dave said,
March 14, 2008 @ 4:52 am
If this new feature were coming from a member of my list instead of Yahoo itself, I would ban the member for featuring other groups on my list. I think it would be much better for Yahoo to allow anyone (members or moderators) to find every group using the Yahoo search feature. This is a very poor feature right now and does not find adult groups at all. I think improving that single feature would make Yahoogroups far more open and available to the masses — and would increase membership by a galactic amount.
Also, I think a lot of members would complain that their Yahoogroups mail was being snagged by ISPs as spam because of the ads. Just dump this idea and move on to something else.
Dave
Diane said,
March 14, 2008 @ 5:02 am
Looks to me like Yahoo needs to spend its time having listowners / moderators register or check in periodically. That would take care of some of the problems I’ve read above.
Seems much more productive than this goofy feature. I would definitely Opt Out as well. We’re a very small group that uses this as an informational site to remind each other of weekly meetings & who will & will not be attending those meetings. We definitely do not need or want this feature.
Diana said,
March 14, 2008 @ 5:09 am
All this new “other relevant groups” will do is make it easier for
The Pirate Advertizers who are too cheap to pay YahooGroups for time
and space on YG servers and pages.
YahooGroups advertizing space is too valuable for The Pirate Advertizers to afford.
YahooGroups can’t afford to give them the free space in your ‘right now’ well respected groups; they are allowed in with their spam and the groups will migrate taking your advertizing base numbers with.
Apparently the new group owners don’t fill their groups the way we do
They don’t have friends telling three friends how great they are — I wonder why? Why do you want to turn YG into Grouply?
The Pirate Advertizers want to fill our on-topic lists
with Mortgage scams and Adult Content links and
Pills/Pharmacy Ads and Cocks and Cock enlargers and
do you want to be my best sexy friend offers.
We work hard ‘right now’ with scrrening new members and moderating messages to keep The Pirate Advertizers away from our members.
Why is YahooGroups trying to make it easier for them to find us?
I want to say right now that my members want to opt-out of your idea
that will leave them open to the above style of pirate advertizers.
Terri said,
March 14, 2008 @ 5:13 am
While for some this feature might be great, but it really needs an option out of the listing without the group being forced to go on the unlisted group. I am the owner of several egroups, some of them have similar members and others have only a select few. I limit my membership by questioning the new prospective member as to their desire to join the group.
I’d rather see the groups put together better as you create the group. There are too many variables when selecting where and how to place your group. An example is…Entertainment…then breaks down to TV or Movie…then breaks down even more. Like in any file system, the more levels you put out there the more frequently the person can get lost. If it stopped at say 3 levels it would make it easier to locate a group.
Denise said,
March 14, 2008 @ 5:15 am
i think removal from the directory does NOT keep them from showing up on YOUR own group…just keeps yours from showing up on others…right?
I think is totally horrid. For example…in my area there was one group who has many of the same members who recently was has been accused of fraud and so on. Yahoo never removed her group so despite the horrid time she caused she still remains. I in no way back or support this other group…
but it appears I maybe “spamming” her on my group since we have many of the same members. this is so not right.
That is just one example.
I agree that you should list something like this to people on their own mygroups page, or improve your search engines…but you should leave the groups posts alone.
Mike Livsey said,
March 14, 2008 @ 5:28 am
I love the comments so far. If anyone played Space Quest VI, the game would say “That’s an idea, not a good idea, but an idea nonetheless”. Feel free to implement it so that I can turn the feature off.
Katherine Harms said,
March 14, 2008 @ 5:31 am
If you want to help me, you will find a way to show me groups that are talking about the same thing as my group. Related topics are important to me when I search for a group. I don’t ever join a group just because I know someone. I only join if the group is talking about a topic that interests me.
Bill H said,
March 14, 2008 @ 5:32 am
The idea is OK but there may be better approaches. I don’t understand why Yahoo Search itself doesn’t do a better job of helping find phrases in the public groups to help people searching for their interests. Both Yahoo and Google searches do pretty well if you form your keywords well. For example, if you are interested in synthesizers (musical instruments) then search with
yahoo group synthesizer
and both searches do fairly well, but Google finds some links with a deeper connection.
Maybe in addition to using membership-relatedness, you could evaluate search engine results in the reccomendations.
The problem I have with Yahoo group search is that I get results with a lot of dead groups and irrelevant chaff because of the way owners describe their groups. It’s hard to read linearly through the results. So sorting options would be very helpful idea there.
Bill H
Satori said,
March 14, 2008 @ 5:33 am
I don’t like this idea at all. First of all I don’t run groups in order to win a popularity contest, so I really don’t care if this new feature means they are going to recommended all over the place. I also take a lot of care in who belongs to them, making sure we don’t end up with spammers, posers, people joining them with alternative agendas and worse. I advertise my groups myself and suggest them to those I “meet” if I think they might be interested. I absolutely do not think it’s at all fair to tell us if we don’t want our groups included in this new feature we then have to be “unlisted” in the Yahoo directory. There should be an opt-in and opt-out on this one, I’m sorry. Another comment here said it will look like we are supporting or recommending groups that we do not want to be associated with and I heartily agree with that. Another pointed out that we have a links section where we can recommend other groups that we know to be good ones, and that is very true as well. And I really, really don’t think people want this list of other groups stuffed into one side of every group email they get — that’s just ridiculous. I can tell you right now that many members of my groups are going to hate this idea for a myriad of reasons. Why is it that when some people decide they want to do something on their groups the rest of us apparently are forced to go along with it?
Diana said,
March 14, 2008 @ 5:43 am
quoted from a YahooGroups page
“No spam please! When in doubt, please refer to our Community Guidelines.”
Do YahooGroups seriously believe that this weak notice makes any difference with the spammers and pirate advertizers?
Our groups have ‘requests to join’ every day with little messages like
” Hi, i’d like to find a sexy friend. ”
Ours is a serious learning group not a place for hookers and johns to meet.
Karen P said,
March 14, 2008 @ 5:47 am
I am AGHAST at this idea. I beg of you to PLEASE make this an optional feature in each individual group. We want our group to be listed in the Yahoo groups, BUT I do NOT want these “recommendations” to be shown along the left-hand column. We are a group dealing with a specific dangerous eye disease. We have one particular competitor group that some of our members also belong to that is getting paid money to influence people to become “guinea pigs” for a new, untested, procedure. The reason OUR group was created was to give people the whole story, and let them make their OWN choice if they want to be used as a guinea pig, or not, instead of making it sound like that’s the only way to go, and not let them know that they will be used to test a product. We are our own group, and do not want to “advertise” that group to our members.
Also, we kicked a member out of our group who deliberately dangerously misinformed members about doing some very dangerous things with their eyes. That member went and created his own group, even using our group’s name in their own name without our permission! I DO NOT want to advertise that group’s name on our board!
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE allow this to be an option in the “management” secton of the groups, and don’t force us to “advertise” our competitors- one of which is especially dangerous to our members!
I just hate to make our group “unlisted” because we need to be available for those looking for help with this potentially debilitating disease. However, if you do this and don’t make it optional, my only choice will be to take away the availability of this information to newly diagnosed people who are going blind in order to protect the existing members we have.
Our group is called FuchsSupport.
Heike said,
March 14, 2008 @ 5:54 am
I must say I am very dissapointed in this feature. While I am not opposed to it as a community group I am definitely opposed to it as a Newsletter group of my business. Now I am being pushed to take my newsletter of the directory, because the last thing I want is my customers chosen other businesses over mine.
That’s a very bad deal for me.
I would have rather liked Yahoo to take our concerns of how to run our groups more efficiently and install some of the items that would help us to do so, like adding attachments to the calendar feature, for example.
If this ‘advertising’ feature could be turned of by the group owner without having to leave the directory, would have been a much better solution.
JMHO
Wendy said,
March 14, 2008 @ 5:54 am
Every time I turn around, Yahoo has changed something that requires me to take steps to protect my members’ privacy and to prevent them from being spammed, this being the latest one.
Yahoo should take note of the number of group owners opposed to this idea. I agree with other posters that this will increase competition between similar groups and that competition will be unwanted. I also find the proposed email sidebar is distracting (I loathe the non-traditional format you imposed a while back). I also agree that this measure, if implemented, gives group owners who wish to protect their group members’ privacy little choice but to delist their group. These “recommendations” do little more than spam everyone in the group with every single message sent out.
I see an even more privacy important issue, however. I am assuming that the group recommendations will be based on OVERALL group membership, not the individual email poster themselves. If they are not, then it will reveal information about the poster they may not wish known to other group members (i.e., their interests) which is a huge invasion of their privacy. Regardless of the source, if those interests generate group recommendations which are upsetting to other group members who receive those emails and the associated advertising, we risk having very upset members! Can you imagine how someone who was a committed Christian receiving group recommendations to atheist or sexually explicit groups? You violate our privacy to begin with by even suggesting these to begin with but you risk upsetting a much wider group of people.
This is a terrible idea! I hope that Yahoo Groups listens and dumps it altogether.
hendri said,
March 14, 2008 @ 5:57 am
I sincerely hope you do NOT implement this. Just fix the group search engine. Emails already have enough junk on them they’re hard to read. We don’t need anything more added to the message body than what’s already there. This is a privacy issue as well.
Grouply didn’t do it the right way in making us opt out. If you are determined to go through with this despite what I’ve read above as the overwhelming majority NOT in favor of, then make it an opt in. We shouldn’t have to opt out on all our groups. If we want it, and I’m seeing most don’t we can opt in on our own and it’s our choice as owners. I think you’ll find a majority won’t opt in and will quickly drop it as an option.
C said,
March 14, 2008 @ 5:57 am
What an AWFUL idea! There are *many* very good reasons for not doing this already listed above, so I won’t rehash them all here. I want to especially point out Jeanne @9:08pm’s and RS @ 11:56pm’s comments listing excellent reasons for NOT doing this.
People seem to find my groups just fine without this “feature”.
If you must do this, put it on the home page with Yahoo Answers (which needs a lot of work, IMO), not in the posts. I also want the ability to opt-out (opt-in would be better) COMPLETELY, without going private. My biggest group is registered, but there are many groups covering the same topic that put out inaccurate or misleading information and I don’t want my group to be associated with them. I’m not in a competition for how many new members I can get in a week/month/year; I want to have a quality group.
In the best of all worlds, you’d drop this horrible idea entirely. Fix the search engine instead.
Susan said,
March 14, 2008 @ 6:25 am
Group owners should be able to turn this feature off WITHOUT being removed from the directory. I think many owners want the public to be able to search and find their listservs but do not want to, in essence, advertise similar listservs in their messages.
Mike Graf said,
March 14, 2008 @ 6:38 am
This might be a good idea for some new groups.
I do not see it benefiting older established groups.
I belong to quite a few yahoo groups and manage or own several of them.
I fulfill the moderator function on three blacksmithing /metalworking lists.
Even with the same subject and, moderator and some overlapping of membership each group is different in character.
I believe this idea will homogenize the unique character that each group possesses.
I also would like to see this cross listing as an option that the moderator could set at any time.
Joe said,
March 14, 2008 @ 6:38 am
Very bad idea..please listen to the feedback and drop it now..
John said,
March 14, 2008 @ 6:42 am
It seems pretty obvious that this is not a feature that is desired by most of the list owners. Please do not force this feature on us!
Elizabeth said,
March 14, 2008 @ 6:51 am
Bad idea. I hope this does not happen. Search for groups is fine like it is. I vote NO.
Cherri said,
March 14, 2008 @ 7:07 am
I think it is obvious from the fact that this post went up yesterday and as of this morning you have 75 moderators telling you this is not a good idea, that this needs to be an optional feature, and not one that can’t be turned off. While it might serve a purpose for some, I also think there are much better things that Yahoo Groups could be spending their time upgrading. Thanks.
Sue said,
March 14, 2008 @ 7:15 am
I”m glad we can opt out of this. I don’t allow URL’s to other groups
in my groups, but you want to spam them on us. No thanks.
MaryLee said,
March 14, 2008 @ 7:18 am
Count me in as another owner that thinks this is a terrible idea without giving the group owner the ability to 1) exclude his/her group without removing it from the directory and 2) prevent the display within his/her own group.
Fun-X Group said,
March 14, 2008 @ 7:27 am
instead of this, if yahoo intorduce sothing like adsense which will give opportunity to earn money from group that will be more helpful
Fun-X Group said,
March 14, 2008 @ 7:27 am
instead of this, if yahoo introduce sothing like adsense which will give opportunity to earn money from group that will be more helpful
Robert Schechter said,
March 14, 2008 @ 7:29 am
I don’t want my other interests (or the fact I belong to another group) advertised. They may NOT have anything tying the two groups together, other than my join membership.
Mark McGee said,
March 14, 2008 @ 7:45 am
I believe the list owners should make the decision about whether to turn this feature on or off. That way we could give it a try and receive feedback from our members about whether they want it available to them. It ultimately needs to serve the members. Thanks for the opportunity to share our thoughts about this new feature.
A. H. Shaikh said,
March 14, 2008 @ 7:50 am
Excellent. Ths feature would certainley help members to know there are more such groups which they may be interested. I am looking forward for such an initiative from Yahoo.
But Yahoo should consider that group owners should be able to turn this feature off without being removed from the directory. I think many owners want the public to be able to search and find their groups.
prince mark adigbo {west african} said,
March 14, 2008 @ 7:55 am
well its a nice idea to share common interest like this, its most welcoming and especially to my waffirian community where you have much more to talk about most likely in the oil and gas industry which my poeple are naturally blessed with in nigeria, west africa where i am a prince in my kingdom under the royal household of chief adigbo oghojafor of ovu inland.
Barbara Crawford said,
March 14, 2008 @ 8:02 am
NO, NO, NO!!!!!!! Why do you persist in adding more garbage in the email messages? It’s already too busy and needs to be “cleaned up.” The groups I am in are based on topics, NOT for who the members are in a group. It’s easy enough to do a search for a group topic, so we don’t need this. If you must add it, put it on the groups home page. I agree that an opt-in feature should be available if you implement this new & unimproved feature.
Polly said,
March 14, 2008 @ 8:10 am
Either forget this or make it an optional feature. While a few groups might benefit and even welcome this change, I personally feel that for most, it will only create more problems. On a couple of my lists, this could even put the personal, spiritual, and emotional safety of my members at risk.
Bad idea! If it is implemented without an opt-out feature, I will be forced to seriously consider removing my lists (one of which is the largest and most active list with its area of focus on Yahoo), and taking them to another service where the privacy of my members are more valued.
Thomas Rohde said,
March 14, 2008 @ 8:29 am
Dear Yahoo,
As I understand this you are telling me that I have to de-list my group in order to avoid what you call *recommendations* for related groups. I think this idea is inappropriate and a detriment to my being able to keep my group safe. In addition, I am afraid that my members will be spammed and contacted by people that they would rather not be in contact with.
Please give us moderators the option to participate in this *idea*.
Marge said,
March 14, 2008 @ 9:12 am
There is too much extra stuff already, and to “advertise” a group that doesn’t want to be advertised isn’t nice. If you are taking votes, mine is no.
RS said,
March 14, 2008 @ 9:59 am
Me again. This is more of an advice to Yahoo Groups about their product to help them understand it and many of us, and why this move has generated such negative reaction. I am speaking in the plural here, because of my many years of seeing how YG is used in practice, and making the leap that my experience is similar to those of most others. Feel free to disagree, fellow users.
Dear Yahoo Groups team,
Yahoo Groups was, is, and should stay a *topic-centered* product. People join a group because they are interested in a topic, not necessarily because of the people who are in the group. Your proposal is a people-centered option, trying to surface content based solely on membership crossover(people). The irrelvance of topics to the equation rubs against the grain of the topic-centric nature of YG. Also, removing any ability for the moderator to control this feature continues the ‘foisting’ of features the users do not ask for on to the users, which many users are quite tired of. The chain of negative feedback above should serve to illustrate the ill will out there towards your process. It generates the impression you don’t understand us, or seek to meet our needs. YG is a superior product, but that’s because it started out that way. Every change in the last 5 years has been poorly designed, poorly implemented and/or reduced the very simple functionality users have always loved from egroups/onelist/YG. I feel it is imperative you understand this. We love the product, but I see an increasing amount of users that feel like you continue to ‘fix what isn’t broken’ to sing an old song around here. So here’s what we do with it:
People use YG to distribute e-mail about the topic(s) WITHIN that group. That’s its primary function and purpose. Anything that reduces the facilitation of that is a hinderance. Only the owner should decide what content and features come to the group. NOT Yahoo. We’re not here for your ideas, we are here for our own. Yahoo doesn’t know us. Yahoo can’t read our minds or find our interests for us. Help *us* find find intersting topics by improving and refining the YG search features, not by randomly vomiting guesses on us that we can’t escape, and that detract from the primary usage of each group. Let owners/mods find related, active groups and choose to share that content on their main page of the group, if that. Don’t clutter our inbox with irrelevancies. We don’t use our e-mails for that. Do you? I’d wager not. Serendipity *can* be attained, but not this way. It has to be logical to the use of the product by the user. This is not a product-logical solution.
The point of e-mail is its content (ie the topic). Anything unrelated is an aggrevation because it is off-topic. Off topic items are a source of aggrevation in *any* topic-centric application. Many mods struggle to keep their groups centered on the topic at hand, and keep membership and participation up. These side distractions in *every e-mail* represent an incredible encouragement towards interest going elsewhere.
YG is topic-centric, not people-centric. It is not a social networking site, and you should resist the urge to try to add much of that aspect into it. Its an information distribution and discussion service. We don’t come to share our entire life here, just the parts of our lives that relate to the *topics* of the group. This is why we use it, generally speaking, and a bit about how. I hope this helps you understand us better.
If you want to add serendipity, I think that’s quite possible, but you need to involve us users in the process of getting there because your actions are so contrary to the logical use of your product, that it suggests to many of us that you don’t understand us or your own product’s use. What you are after can be attained, but under no circumstances should it be done at the message level, where it intereferes actively with the group with every post. Call us, we’ll talk. Bring us in on these developments, and avoid the embarrassment and bad feelings caused of these types of attempts. We don’t know what you are doing or why, or what your priorities are. Open up, get the feedback, and let us guide you. That’s all we ask. You’ll get a superior product when the users tell you what they want, and you do it. Until that’s truly your model, expect this kind of response. You’ll be earning every word of it. Want happy users? Ask them what they want and give it to them. How simple is that?
Good luck.
Administrator said,
March 14, 2008 @ 10:09 am
***UPDATE***
I see that many of you have questions and concerns over this new feature that we’re testing and I wanted to assure you that we’re reading through all of your comments. We can’t respond to each comment individually but instead will be reviewing the comments over the next few days and address them in a post next week. Your feedback is very valuable to us and we appreciate your effort to share your thoughts with us.
Thank you for your patience,
Jami
RS said,
March 14, 2008 @ 10:10 am
One last item. I have started the equivalent of a petition to NOT implement this feature by using the suggestion boards for YG. If you *do not* want this feature, please go to this suggestion:
http://suggestions.yahoo.com/detail/?prop=groups&fid=79637
And add your vote. Lets make sure they hear us loud and clear from every angle.
Cheers!
Anna said,
March 14, 2008 @ 10:16 am
We have not allowed the advertising of other groups in our group for years and now you are going to do it. This really makes no sense except to spam us with info about other groups. With over 3000 members and a high volume of mail I think this is going to wind up as more of a detriment than a benefit. I really hope we as Owners/Moderators can shut this off. I personally do NOT want anything to do with it. I’m sure my members are smart enough to look up the kinds of groups they are interested in without a continuous prompt from yahoo.
June said,
March 14, 2008 @ 10:16 am
This is a TERRIBLE idea, for all the reasons mentioned, PLUS maybe a group doesn’t want to ‘recommend’ their competition. If your members want to go out and look for other groups on their own, then so be it but, why should you help them find them easily? Does Macy’s advertise for Sears? I don’t think so.
Why not do something constructive like eliminate all the groups where no one has posted for a year or more to make searches more constructive? Is someone going to be screening what gets ‘recommended’ or are people going to be directed to some of these obviously defunct groups as well?
Also, simply having members in common does not mean that a group has any relevance to my group members at large. Who knows what some of my members might be into. For instance, are adult related groups going to be advertised on a PG type group? I don’t know who came up with this idea but, it’s a real dud!
RS said,
March 14, 2008 @ 10:18 am
Thanks Jami. Good to know you are at least still out there and reading. Please consider my emphasis a sign of my passion for the groups product. There’s tons of goodwill out here, but it gets strained when these issues rear up. FWIW, YG has improved its communications with users greatly and does appear to be listeneing in many respects, but then these type things happen, and I start to worry and wonder again.. I look forward to helping Yahoo develop this concept in a useful way.
Jazzy said,
March 14, 2008 @ 10:20 am
I am totally against this, the members in my groups know that they can post in the group without being bothered by other members posting about their groups within the group, isn’t that what the link section is for, let them use the link section to advertise their groups, if any member is interested they will follow the link to the groups that they want to join. Inaddition it takes away from the discussion that the members are having. Also, any new member that joins my groups are on moderation it will take time to read & reject their post, infact in my groups we have a guideline for members to follow. Like I said I think this is a very bad idea.
Jazzy
loo loo said,
March 14, 2008 @ 10:31 am
I think this is an absolutely horrible idea.
Group owners are very protective of their groups. and not all groups appove of eachother, Some actually are rivals. That being said, I do not want to help out a group starting out, that has made ill reference to me and my group by letting them advertise on my group. No thank you.
and if you can’t turn this feature off??? are you kidding me? I say No, No, NO!
Kathy said,
March 14, 2008 @ 10:33 am
I think from what I’m reading that almost everyone feels the same as I do. This is not wanted or needed. Anyone needing to search for a group can just do it from the search. It’s not needed for you to suggest other groups to us. I’m totally against this idea, I think it’s an invasion of privacy. I also think it’s just going to add more junk to an email than is already there from group mail and I don’t want that. The messages are already messy enough and over crowded making them difficult to read.
Please take a vote from all members before going forward with this idea. I think you’re going to find most won’t want it.
Margot Milner said,
March 14, 2008 @ 11:05 am
ONLY if I can opt out. a) It’s spam; b) There is enough stuff in the messages now that it’s almost impossible to trim; c) this is not a substitute for doingsomething about the search feature. Basically, no, thank you.
Lou B said,
March 14, 2008 @ 11:09 am
This means that subject related groups will be promoted?
So if I understand this correctly then this does not please me. I will not allow my members of my group to promote another group when posting.
Can this feature be turned off?
PK said,
March 14, 2008 @ 11:21 am
This seems like spam to me. We are required to have enough (stuff) on the right side of our emails now. If I am interested in another group I will look for it.
Please reconsider this idea.
Respectfully,
PK
Nora Jean Gatine said,
March 14, 2008 @ 11:35 am
No No NO… I’ve been working for nearly 10 years building a group with a team of volunteers and the last thing we want is to have similar groups be advertised in our group space. If a member advertised a competing Yahoo Group it is in direct violation of our SPAM policy they would be banned. Since our group has been around for almost a decade and has nearly 2K list members, it’s an attractive target for “johnny come lately’s” to join just to advertise their group. Like we’re a captive audience for someone who doesn’t want to have to do the work to build a group up from scratch and keep it going for as long as my volunteers and I have done.
Shall we take our members else where? Because believe me, our members aren’t with us because we’re a part of Yahoo Groups, they are with us in spite of the fact that they have to get a Yahoo ID to participate. We have the content that these members want. Not Yahoo. As opposed to thinking that you’re doing us a favor by providing this service for free, realize that we’re doing you the favor for driving traffic to your portal, from which you make money off of Ads. Yahoo Ads are enough, ok? We don’t want to advertise other groups no matter how many of our group members are in those other groups.
Get OVER the notion that Yahoo Groups has to be a “SOCIAL NETWORK” like MySpace or FaceBook. Doesn’t it occur to the powers that be at Yahoo that maybe some people don’t want that sort of interface? That the reason why Yahoo Groups members are part of an email group is because it’s a self enclosed environment? There’s a sense of intimacy that is built over time with members who know each other and have developed a bond of trust in order to share what they have to share.
Who ever signed off on this idea must never been a Yahoo Group owner/moderator/member. The decision makers at Yahoo Groups must never had years of their time and effort to build a group be jeopardized by some half baked idea. Do you at Yahoo want to have your personal group subscriptions scrutinized? That’s what you’re suggesting. Someone wrote a program that checks the subscriptions of all Yahoo Group members and tallies them. NO No No. Aren’t we already loosing our privacy enough?
Have anyone at Yahoo Groups even addressed the “Grouply” problem? Do you care that our group’s posts are being stored on someone else’s servers? Posts that can be seen by anyone connected to another person’s social network? Some Yahoo Groups are discussing some sensitive issues of physical and mental health, sexuality, religion, etc. We’re being violated. Why should Yahoo Group owners have to jump through a handful of hoops to get their group’s posts off of Grouply’s servers when Yahoo Groups could PROTECT us in one felled swoop and put a stop to Grouply storing our posts. By ignoring this glaring oversight and by suggesting another privacy violating idea you’re going to loose Yahoo Groups, taking hits and eyeballs from your portal. That effects your bottom line. It’s ultimately a money loosing proposition for Yahoo. If our privacy means nothing to you then your earning should.
I’m part of a Yahoo Groups “family”. We have many Yahoo Groups under one umbrella. If this sort of idea takes hold it’s easy enough to move our members to a PHP-Nuke environment on one of our many websites. Then we can insure that our members have a better chance of privacy.
Hbro said,
March 14, 2008 @ 11:39 am
do this for just public groups and leave the private groups out of this
Nancy P said,
March 14, 2008 @ 11:57 am
I do not care to have our group used as a means to further another group that may say they have similar topics or concerns.
Not all groups are equal.
I know that there are other groups that come under listings similar to ours but only use it as a means to talk about things that have nothing to do with the disease they are suppose to represent.
When it comes to health topics especially, it is the wrong place to be dropping group names like they know what they are doing.
We have over 1,000 members. We do not need more things added to our group. The members come to hear about a disease and they do not care to see your advertising. That is what I consider some of the things that it seems you would be putting on our site.
I am a big NO and if you are going to try it anyway, then I would suggest that the owners have a say in whether they want it or not on their group. Otherwise, give us a shut off button.
If it is forced on us, then we may have to seek other means to do our work.
Nancy P
Health group
Carina said,
March 14, 2008 @ 11:59 am
ABSOLUTELY NOT!
For all the reasons stated. I own/co own four yahoogroups. We have built our groups for years and are proud of an active and helpful community. While we are not threatened by losing members to other groups and in fact have no rule against recommending other groups, no way do we want to see similar groups advertised on the same page.
It is actually quite easy to search for other yahoogroups. Now if yahoo wants to do something really useful, why not delete all the abandoned and inactive lists that sit there gathering spam? THAT would make it easier for people to search for groups.
I really hope you don’t consider this. Thank you.
Alex said,
March 14, 2008 @ 12:05 pm
hi
how r ya
Susan said,
March 14, 2008 @ 12:37 pm
It is my understanding that there will be an option to opt out. HOWEVER, I have also heard *if you opt out* your group will be removed from the Yahoo listserv directory. Is this true? It makes no sense that because a list owner does not want to have other groups recommended on their messages, further cluttering up the message which are already cluttered with ads, that their listserv will be removed from the directory. In addition, I would not want certain groups included in my list messages not to mention groups I do not even know about. If this is true I find it to be an unreasonable and unfair way to essentially force list owners to go along with this feature or be taken out of the directory. The directory is easily searchable for all available lists.
W. Marie Werth said,
March 14, 2008 @ 12:44 pm
This doesn’t really make sense. Some groups are competitors for the attention of the participants in whatever interest they discuss. Would putting Ford ads in a Chevy newletter make sense? If you spread out memberships too thin, then the groups will suffer. Yahoo should concentrate on NOT being bought by microsoft and leave the group structure alone.
Pat said,
March 14, 2008 @ 12:45 pm
I do not want this either as my group is for personal use of the members in it. We do not need or want to be forced to unsub from something we never wanted in the first place. To show other groups to each other is like making yahoo groups into a Wal-mart groups out of us. We group owners started our groups for our own reasons and we feel we should be the one to let others know we are out there.
Lou B said,
March 14, 2008 @ 12:48 pm
I just saw the new format come thru on an individual post … I DO NOT WANT THESE OTHER GROUPS ADVERTISED IN MY GROUP. IF I MUST, I WILL LEAVE YAHOO AND MOVE TO MSN OR GOOGLE. PLEASE REMOVE THIS FORMATING FROM MY GROUP…!!!!!
CHEAP_CAMPING IS MY GROUP.
Deb said,
March 14, 2008 @ 12:50 pm
Please reconsider this option. Definitely make it optional and let owners opt out. You will find that only the owner-less lists will keep it!
I agree with many others here that spending time dealing with ownerless lists would be much better than whatever time was spent on this project. Making the search engine better would be a help–but not this way.
Mo said,
March 14, 2008 @ 1:05 pm
I do not like this new feature of listing other groups on the sidebar of my group’s emails. I also do not like the idea of my groups being mentioned on groups I do not approve of or like, just because we may have common members. The groups that are being listed on my groups sidebar may have members common to mine but the groups themselves are not similar! Sharing recipes or collecting appliances is not the same as collecting cookbooks!
Please remove this feature or at least give us the option to turn it off.
Thank you for the opportunity to voice my opinion.
Mo said,
March 14, 2008 @ 1:08 pm
I do not like this new feature of listing other groups on the sidebar of my group’s emails. I also do not like the idea of my groups being mentioned on groups I do not approve of or like, just because we may have common members. The groups that are being listed on my groups sidebar may have members common to mine but the groups themselves are not similar! Sharing recipes or collecting appliances is not the same as collecting cookbooks!
Please remove this feature or at least give us the option to turn it off.
Also, having the largest membership does not appeal to all of us. Quality of member is much more important than quantity.
Thank you for the opportunity to voice my opinion.
RS said,
March 14, 2008 @ 1:10 pm
A response to the Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs)
“Why are you recommending groups to me that I am already a member of?
The recommendations are based at the group level, not at the individual member level. That is, we are only looking at groups that share members. Future enhancements of this feature will exclude your existing memberships. ”
So we get a halfway complete feature? Not even a complete one? That’s a GREAT idea. Always makes members happy to have a semi-functional product. And it only examines one angle? This isn’t even a real feature, it’s a pretend feature. It only sounds useful, and that’s if you aren’t paying closer attention. It isn’t actually telling you anything besides “oh by the way I noticed a coincidence”. Data we didn’t ask for, data we don’t want or need, and in our e-mail, in EVERY e-mail we get from every group. Can you see why we users would look at this and scratch our heads?
“These groups don’t have anything to do with my group. Why are you showing them to me?
Recommendations are made by looking at your group and finding other groups that share common members. If there is enough overlap between members, we will recommend the group. Future enhancements of this feature will include more relevant recommendations to you.”
Again, how do you know what is relevant to me? Without me even telling you?
Who asked for this feature? It wasn’t us users, I can tell ya that. Check the suggestion boards if you need proof. See above re: the “by the way” factor. Again, and admission that this is an incomplete “feature”.
“I don’t want my group to be recommended. Do I have a choice?
You can remove your group from the Yahoo Group directory to make it unlisted if you do not want it to appear in recommendations. However, we highly encourage you to stay listed as this will help interested members find you. Visit Groups Help for instructions on how to remove your group from the directory: ”
So I don’t HAVE to be listed but I *do* have to suffer the listings in every e-mail, KNOWING (per above) that the feature (a) won’t be relevant to me (b) isn’t even done yet. Couldn’t ya, I dunno, do a beta on that FIRST, and roll us
out a completed, functional product, as altered by user feedback already? Would that not be, ya know, logical? And either I am all the way in and get listed how and wherever you see fit, or I don’t get listed at all? Wow! That seems pretty harsh. You get ALL (done our way) or nothing! Mneh! Comes across kinda authoritarian to me. So much for friendly? What about my poor members who don’t want their membership in another group posted for the psychostalker types to find? Suggesting this group also creates a suggestion that a particular member that muight be bing stalked can also be found in other groups, run by less protective mods. Security issues created too! Wowzers. Is there anything GOOD here? I can’t see it.
And, hello…. Its not about us not getting *our* groups cross-listed, its about NOT WANTING LISTINGS TO APPEAR AT ALL.
I hope you see how flawed this announcement was, and also re-examine your entire development process. We shouldn’t have to suffer through Yahoo’s development process. That should be done elsewhere with real users to get a good product *before* “tesing it out” on all of us. Thanks for at least warning us this one was coming, and giving us a forum to say NO WAY, SAN JOSE! It at least beats the last round of so-called ‘improvements’…
Sorry for the umpteenth post here, but this really sticks in my craw how much you all missed the mark on even the concept of this feature. I’ll be more helpful later. I do have ideas for how this could be done, but I really want to know the brakes have been applied to this project first.
Carina said,
March 14, 2008 @ 1:15 pm
Yahoo is taking all our feedback very seriously. In fact, they really want to hear our opinions and will consider them carefully.
BS!!!! Whatever has been posted here has been completely IGNORED. There are now a string of listings under messages coming into my lists, with all the common list names and addresses.
This really, really sucks.
Thanks for NOTHING, Yahoo.
RS said,
March 14, 2008 @ 1:17 pm
“Thanks for at least warning us this one was coming, ”
Or not as the case may be. Per Lou B’s post above it sounds like this has already been inflicted on some of us? *shakes head* I feel sorry for you Jami. I can only imagine what tragic company process guides these (revoltin’) developments,, and how your task of trying to onboard users to these things will likely be a stressful one.
Dangit Yahoo! Be nice to Jami! What did she ever do to you?
Margot Milner said,
March 14, 2008 @ 1:27 pm
Are you people crazy! You’ve had nothing but negative feedback on this and now it appears on our list! I think our group is moving to googlegroups.
Rae Creedle said,
March 14, 2008 @ 1:42 pm
PLEASE do not implement this. If you implement something similar, please put it on the user’s My Groups page. If you MUST implement it, please make it opt-in feature..
Like Yahoo Answers, this is another ill-conceived idea. Not only will this look like spam to members, it will open up groups to more spam.
Why don’t you just improve the search feature?
If you really want to do something which is needed, why not do something about the identical spam emails from different yahoo email addresses. I delete several of these and ban members posting them from the 4 groups I moderate EVERY DAY.
Rae
RS said,
March 14, 2008 @ 1:51 pm
I think I found the problem:
YOUR GOAL:
“The goal is to help you connect with other people you share common interests with…”
Key problem, as I outlined above, this is a people-centric approach to a topic-centered service. People use YG by TOPIC not by common membership. Your solution is flawed because it is not oriented towards the primary usage of YG by YG members. It feels like at a corporate level you truly don’t understand the culture within the YG user community.
Your goal can be accomplished, as other users have said to no end above to by refining your search feature within YG. Stop the madness. Stop the rollout now, save what’s left of your image on this matter.
SandyO said,
March 14, 2008 @ 1:58 pm
I, too, am not in favor of the ‘common member’ feature. I agree with Mo; I don’t want my groups ‘advertised’ on other groups’ emails as they may not be groups I would recommend. And vice versa: other groups may not be ones I would suggest to my members so I don’t want them listed in my group emails. This is NOT a good idea. An improved search feature would be a better way for Yahoo! R&D staff to spend their time. Then it would be simple for people to find groups that mirror their interests.
Please take this away!
Lynn H said,
March 14, 2008 @ 2:02 pm
Count me as another who hates this idea. I own or moderate 14 Groups, from tiny sets of friends to a 2000-member education philosophy list, plus I am on about 26 more groups. I don’t allow other lists to advertise on my Groups. Many of my members are overseas, where they pay by the byte. Our big list can get very busy, so we moderate to keep it on topic, so the information does not get lost in the noise. We don’t need more ads of any sort. Make this an option the owner can turn off without going Private. Maybe make it an option individuals can turn on for themselves, but don’t spam everyone!
RS said,
March 14, 2008 @ 2:02 pm
I FOUND A FIX!
Set all your members to Traditional Message Delivery! This removes the spam links! It will take work on your part, and nothing prevents a member from switching back, but this eliminates the links. At least its a short term solution. Cheers.
northbaj said,
March 14, 2008 @ 2:10 pm
You must be kidding. Why on earth would we want more stuff filling the space where our posts should be. I do not want this, the members of my groups do not want this. Do not fix what is not broken.
sharon said,
March 14, 2008 @ 2:21 pm
Just because you can add more things to a screen does not mean that you should so so. The computer momitors are so crowded with add ons that it is difficult to scan and read messages. Communication is best done in a clear manner. All these additional features just clutter up the communication board and contribute to eye strain, fatigue, frustration, and anger. There is no need for this type of feature. Anyone who wants to search for another group can do so through the search function. Membership in a group should not be used as the basis of advertising other groups. Please stop meddling with what is a very functional format. You can “improve” something to the point that it no longer serves its original purpose and thereby loose your client base in the process. Leave the format alone.
Eva said,
March 14, 2008 @ 2:35 pm
Really, really BAD idea. Do you not get the fact that people here aren’t looking for MySpace? I detest the chaos, counterintuitive setup, and in-your-face advertising that is MySpace.Why would you want to try to make YG more like that? The current email layout is cluttered enough and now you want to add MORE to it?! Seriously, people don’t LIKE having advertising forced on them…we just tolerate because it’s pays for a service that we do like. Now you’re going to start advertising more and expect us to do a happy dance about it? The people making your decisions obviously don’t use the service themselves.
Oh, wait…you’re going to troll through my groups’ membership lists and look at other groups they’re on to find other “recommended” groups for my members? Gee, that’s so thoughtful of you. Because you (or the program you design to do this) have a real connection with and understanding of our members’ needs and will therefore know exactly which groups will be most appropriate for our members. I mean, you do so well with the random ads on our group pages (like an ad for sandals for a dollhouse miniaturist group).
All sarcasm aside, the group owners need control over this if you decide to waste your time actually implementing it. We should have the option to not participate without being removed from the pulic listings; the option to not have our emails include ads from other groups; and, for those who actually like the idea, the group owners should have the ability to choose which groups are advertised to their members.
Don’t just drop this on us and spin it like it’s a great idea that will benefit us all because many of us are very protective of our groups. We don’t all allow ads for competing groups (for various reasons including that some groups really may be at odds, whether they discuss the same topic or not). And most of us don’t allow member rustling–a person who joins so they have access to the membership list to spam them individually with invites to their groups (or other ads). So why would we want to give Yahoo itself that privilege?
If you’ve have people tell you they want to be able to find groups easier, fix the search function so we don’t 50 obsolete groups for every functioning one. Or do something about all the fallow groups that have been taken over by spammers. But don’t mess with our members’ privacy or add more advertising and call it an improvement.
Dayle said,
March 14, 2008 @ 2:37 pm
No, No, No! There’s already too much junk to deal with when we log on to Yahoo. Nothing more, please!!!
Not RS (ha ha) said,
March 14, 2008 @ 2:43 pm
I think Lee Clancey himself, director of YG, should make a public apology for this move, and to include his team in that apology. Gordon and Jami have done a lot of work applying lipstick to this pig, and genertally trying to make things marginally better. He owes us, and them, an apology here. This is just day two before people have started seeing this en mass. When people realize we again got no real warning on this before a bad change happened, well, I imagine more venom is on the way. Dig Lee out of his cozy cubicle and put him on the corner of Front & Center streets please. Jami & Gordon shouldn’t have to field this backlash, it should be him. Lee, where are you? We’d like a word…
David said,
March 14, 2008 @ 3:06 pm
I truly hope this will be optional. One of Yahoo’s across the board annoying features is that you’re constantly giving me things if interest or things you think I might want to see. Have you lost tract of the fact that your biggest feature is your search engine? If I want to find other things I’ll use that. If people are complaining teach them how to search!
Jan said,
March 14, 2008 @ 3:28 pm
There have been tons of messages posted here that reflect my viewpoint
I too think this is an ill-conceived and poorly thought out idea – one that Yahoo should abandon. Groups are a totally different format from my space or face book – and that is what makes them desirable and competitive. If you attempt to make them fit into the myspace/grouply mold you will destroy their unique flavor. If we, and our members wanted to participate in a myspace type community – then we would instead of maintaining our ‘group’ communities.
Please don’t re-invent the wheel – groups provide countless users with something they use and enjoy as they are now.
In addition – I would not appreciate anyone promoting their group on my group – I’ve dealt with enough list trolls who try to build their group on my work – I certainly would not welcome such an excursion on the part of Yahoo itself.
Rev. David Francis said,
March 14, 2008 @ 3:37 pm
I am one of those that is totally against this way of doing things to advertise other groups on the right hand margin of our emails. I know that in the groups I belong to splits have taken place and new groups have been formed by the splitting members. Many of them do not want their new groups advertised at all.
I would suggest a much tighter new group sign up option where areas of interest would limited in order to get folks into the right interest group. If you go to the Religious groups you will find a mish mash of groups where the description and grouping are totally different than they content of the emails.
Rev. David Francis
Margot Woods said,
March 14, 2008 @ 4:14 pm
I don’t like it at all. I run a couple of groups that are very private. We want it to stay that way. First time I get wind of groups being listed in such a public manner, I’m taking my toys and going off to play at some other playground.
Paw Paw said,
March 14, 2008 @ 4:23 pm
Unless I missed some, I just received my first mail, with this new advertising on it.
Instead of being to the right side, as it was stated to be, it is across the top entire page.
This group, is listed in the Yahoo directory, under Adult/Romance & Relationships,
So far, I now have 4 groups being advertised , in this group..
MyDBPIcs1
Adult-Groups-Backup
AmazingSex
The-Adult_World
Click on the group links, and you have a front page photo of sex in action…..
Our group rules, have always been no advertising, of other groups.
Use the link section of our group, or join one of the many group advertisng groups..
As always, thanks Yahoo……….NOT
KB Barrett said,
March 14, 2008 @ 4:54 pm
sounds like a mess… need to keep the emails simple, uncomplicated….more cross referencing equals more spam and more confusion. If we don’t actually have a choice about it, at least provide option to turn it off!
Don McAlister said,
March 14, 2008 @ 4:57 pm
Please make this an opt-in feature so that thos who share your enthusiasim can take advantage of it and I won’t have to figure out how to turn it off.
Personally, I don’t want to minimize more clutter on my group sites and I have never heard from anyone wanting something like the feature you describe.
jeanne said,
March 14, 2008 @ 4:58 pm
This is absolutely outrageous! On one of my groups that this advertising of other groups suddenly appeared, one of the so-called recommended groups first of all is nothing more than a spammer’s paradise because they no longer have an active owner or any active moderators. Our canning group is very strict in that we only can following current USDA recommendations and the group Yahoo is promoting does the total opposite!
I own a Christian group. God help us if someone at Yahoo decides that we should encourage our members to join a witchcraft group!
The owners should have the right to advertise any other groups or be able to opt out of this.
I own/mod about 17 groups and this goes against everything I believe in!
Paw Paw said,
March 14, 2008 @ 4:59 pm
If they do as they say, I did have a choice..
I just removed ALL, of my groups, from the Yahoo Directory.
Supposedly takes up to 24 hours for this to become effective, but it has been done…
You work for years, building a group, around certain rules and regulations, and within seconds, without warning, Yahoo tears them down…
Just Great !!!
Kathy said,
March 14, 2008 @ 5:04 pm
I guess our opinions didn’t matter as it looks like it was already a done deal. I can tell you I don’t want a myspace type thing with yahoo groups. I hate going to myspace. It’s honestly not what EVERYONE wants. Please keep the groups the way they are now. They work just fine this way. This is really useless. It’s now squeezing my messages to a small area on the left. Please just get rid of it before it goes any further.
Ruth Nier said,
March 14, 2008 @ 5:09 pm
There is enough junk on the bottom of emails now. I pay for my yahoo service and therefore my emails should ad free. But you add your junk anyway. Don’t start adding any more. IF I WANT TO FIND MORE GROUPS OF INTEREST TO ME I KNOW HOW TO DO THAT. What are you going to do read my emails to figure out what may interest me????? You invade my privacy enough right now I don’t need any more. So don’t add anymore junk to a service I pay for and should be add free!!!!!!!
Paula said,
March 14, 2008 @ 5:14 pm
Are you people nuts? Do you actually think group members will be overjoyed to have MORE ads & spam crammed down their throats? And your big idea of cross-listing groups is a huge invasion of privacy! Why on earth would you do this to us? Can’t you see how this kind of thing could go terribly wrong?
It sounds like you think we members don’t have the intelligence to do a search if we’re interested in finding “similar” groups, so you’re going to blast our emails full of junk! Phooey!!!!
You’re going to wind up talking to an empty room because alot of groups will leave & find someplace where there’s no dictatorship.
Any Yahooligans listening to all this NEGATIVE feedback?
Ann Salla said,
March 14, 2008 @ 5:22 pm
NNOOOOOooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!
Doreen Johnson said,
March 14, 2008 @ 5:25 pm
There is already too much info attached to our emails! Then this would also add someone reading our emails as well! I DO NOT WANT THIS CHANGE!
Anna said,
March 14, 2008 @ 5:27 pm
I’m sorry, but I really hate this new feature. I would *love* to have the ability to turn this feature off, or opt out. Failing that, please please please make it go away.
Now there’s even MORE stuff pasted into the email version, making it even more difficult for the members to find the information they need on how to unsub, contact the mods, post, etc.
I also think I’ll have a lot of members complaining about it, and I really don’t need that.
I can see where some groups and members might find it useful, but for my groups, this is a terrible idea. Please please please make it go away?!
Thanks
.
Marie said,
March 14, 2008 @ 5:42 pm
I agree with others, we need a better search engine area and more break-down for groups to put their name in so that it “MAKES IT EASIER TO FIND A GROUP”, right now it is much too general; I’ve said this before. Plus we don’t need to open ourselves up to Spam; and I doubt people will read that list anyway, my people hardly read a quick note I send out that is important and marked so, which is why I continue having to do things that I shouldn’t have to do in order to approve a post and ship it.
I also want the option of turning it off like I can Yahoo Answers which most of the times doesn’t even come close to our group and neither do the ads.
So, this goes on the E-Mail post; just what we need!!! That is going to make it harder to read posts, already some people can’t keep the information below or above the actual post, it seems to want to end up in the right hand area, thus the context of the post runs across it and is hard to read or view. Now you want to add this and make it harder. PLEASE TELL ME IT AIN’T SO!!
You might consider if you just got “The Can’t Help It’s” to do this putting it on the Home Page of the site and removing some of the other advertising that is there to make room. DO NOT take away any area from what we the owner or moderator has to put a picture or a description, we don’t have enough room as it is at times. Members and people looking for groups can become confused if there is not a good picture and description, these are needful. The picture is usually the first thing that catches the eye and makes the person want to read the description and think about joining. It’s needful and it takes about 250 pixels to be of any use.
Groups also has a Links area that can be used for this if Yahoo would send us a list we could put it there, provided WE think it matches our group and advise our members to check it out, or we could enclose it in our monthly reminders for them. Again provided WE think it is a match for our own group people.
Trying to match people or a site to others is difficult to say the least, I don’t think it’ll work unless you ask the owners and moderators to guide you. . Again a good example of mis-match is Yahoo Answers and the ads at the bottom of our sites. From what I’ve seen on my site and others, they miss by several miles which means that usually, Yahoo has not got a clue what most of the site(s) are about.
I do not allow links in our posts unless I or my owner have personally checked them out and approve them. Most of my people don’t like links!! Now you want to go and toss in a bunch that I may not approve of for our group onto the E-Mail Posts. I want the turn off option!! So lets not get hasty and go mixing Oranges and Apples Yahoo, check with your owners and monitors first before you toss on a link(s) that may not be suitable for the members. Give us the Turn Off Option.
Better yet forget the whole thing and go to work on the Search Engine Area instead, enlarge it, refine it, give us more options to set our groups in, and allow us to set them in more then one at a time so those looking in several different areas will find them.
Marie – Six Pics Monitor
Dick T. said,
March 14, 2008 @ 5:42 pm
I am opposed to this idea and hope it will not be implimented.
Polly said,
March 14, 2008 @ 5:43 pm
Ok, enough is enough, I have just unlisted my largest group until this gets straightened out. If this feature remains up, I am exploring other options of where to take my six groups. I work hard to maintain my member’s privacy and safety. This latest move just made that job harder. Thanks Yahoo – for nothing!
texas critter said,
March 14, 2008 @ 6:18 pm
Wow. What an amazingly bad idea.
If you wanted to offer this as an *option* that owners could *enable* (and disabled by default), I would think it was a terrific idea. Choices are good things.
But what makes it an amazingly bad idea is that you want to force our groups to advertise *other* groups and that you will force us to be advertised on other groups is just stupuendously awful. I can’t believe someone thought it was a good idea to force this on listowners.
And the suggestion that we should just remove our groups from the Yahoo directory appears to address only half the problem – it only stops our own group from being advertised elsewhere, it doesn’t stop the sidebar that advertises other groups on our groups. It’s one thing to be listed in the Yahoo directory, what you’re suggesting here is far more blatant and intrusive than a listing in the Yahoo directory. I might be perfectly happy with being listed in the Yahoo directory but have absolutely no interest in being part of advertising other groups or having my group advertised in places I know nothing about. In the Yahoo directoy, I have a choice about where to list my group, I can choose the most appropriate category for my group. But there may be groups that have members in common with my group that are either in direct competition with mine (perhaps even started by someone I banned from my group) or are topics that are direct opposites of mine. And you’re going to advertise my group willy-nilly unless I make it completely unlisted and lose what good advertising I did have in the Yahoo directory.
Do it like this instead:
1. The sidebar of group recommendations appearing on a group’s messages should be an *owner* option and disabled by default (or if you absolutely must, enabled to start with but put a link to where to turn it off in that informational box you put just above each group’s description are on the home page – similar to how group owners can turn off the Yahoo answers box on the group’s home page).
2. Having one’s own group recommended in other groups should also be an *owner* option and again, disabled by default or if you must enable it by default, then an easy link to turn it off in that informational box.
The choice of whether to have one’s group advertised elsewhere AND whether to advertise other groups MUST be an owner option – for Yahoo to summarily usurp that owner right flies in the face of all you have said about owner rights and responsibilities in recent posts here in this blog.
In addition to owners’ rights, I can see whole new possibilities for spammers – using the zillions of Yahoo IDs that spammers create every day at Yahoo, they’ll join groups that have open memberships (but moderate new members so the spammers haven’t been able to post spam to these groups) and then they’ll create their own spam group, join their spammer IDs and voila, their spam group now has lots of common members with legit groups and the spam group suddenly starts getting advertised in the sidebar on the legit groups.
Yuck!
Minisnmore said,
March 14, 2008 @ 6:32 pm
From what I have read, no one wants this, and you claim to be listening, but you have forced it on groups already. Why do you even pretend to be interested in what people want? Where is the profit here? Are you getting kickbacks from groups to implement this?
Like many others have said, I am in groups because of the content. There are many people that are in the same lists that I am that are also members of groups I will NEVER join. I may not like the scale they work in or may have other personal reasons for not wanting to be part of a group. Why would you possibly think that I would want to join a group just because other members are in it?
I have seen some very valid remarks above that not many have reitierated enough. You have indicated that if people don’t want their group advertised then they can make it private, HOWEVER you have not said that will prevent them from being advertised on. So you are saying that if we don’t want this, we should take our group to your competitors.
I have seen lots of people say they want an opt-out feature, but one person had it truly correct – it should be an opt-in feature. Then the three or four people I read that liked it could have it and the thousands that don’t wouldn’t have to.
Please don’t give us lip service on this. If you really do want our opinions, then listen and dump this hairbrained idea. Do instead what everyone really wants and work on fixing your search feature for the yahoo groups home page.
Tricia J. said,
March 14, 2008 @ 6:49 pm
If you MUST have this, please make this an opt in, NOT an opt out, feature. Making it an opt out feature smacks of Grouply, and spammers, which is surely not the association you want in the minds of your list owners/moderators. If you’ve truly had “high demand” for it, then let those who want it choose to have it and don’t foist it on the rest of us.
Wanna said,
March 14, 2008 @ 6:58 pm
I do not think this is a good idea. If people are interested in a subject enough to join one group, they can certainly learn of others. Word of mouth is the best way in my opinion.
nisa said,
March 14, 2008 @ 7:06 pm
I don’t like this at all. Please allow us to opt out without making our group unlisted (not listed in the directory).
Christine said,
March 14, 2008 @ 7:15 pm
I really hope this does not happen. Some groups have common members but spamming other groups to each other is a horrid idea.
I really don’t see a reason to mess with something that works just fine. If people are have a problem finding groups like the ones they are on they need to ask on the group for link to other groups. Or you all can change the search area for location groups. Something, anything would be better then what you are thinking of doing.
aes_ca said,
March 14, 2008 @ 7:20 pm
Absolutely hate, hate, hate this idea!
1. Many related groups have conflicting interests – why interfere with our notices by adding information with which we as moderators do not agree and which we spend our efforts debunking, in effect promoting the competition?
2. I shudder to think how much harder this will make trimming posts. Think about people on dail-up and who use voice recognition software who will have to plow through this “noise” to get to the info they want on our groups!
3. Normal people will use the Groups search feature anyway to find groups of related interest. How certain are you of 100% relevant retrieval only? That’s what I thought.
If you MUST implement it, at least make it optional for group owners to turn the feature off without removing their groups from the searchable list. C’mon, be fair to us, don’t take over the way we present our lists!
tildy said,
March 14, 2008 @ 7:33 pm
PLEASE make this an OPT IN feature! For a large group such as the one I am owner of this is horrible…
1. Promoting other lists is cause for removal or banning
2. We limit sig files to only a few lines to keep clutter to a min
Both of these rules that help make my group sucessful are being compromised with this new feature. My members Digets are full of garbage links to so called ’similar groups’…many of which I do not WANT promoted in emails coming from my own group messages. Lastly, our daily digests and individual emails are more junk links now than message.
We are not happy… But you can make us VERY happy just by making this an OPT In feature available to turn on or turn off in our group Managment section.
We THANK YOU IN ADVANCE for not repeating the Grouply Fiasco.. I thank you in advance for making this an OPT IN and working to restore our trust in Yahoo Groups decision making processes again…
Kelly
Kathie said,
March 14, 2008 @ 7:41 pm
Please DO NOT do this. I get enough junk & spam already.
Seems like this will cause a lot more work for the owners and mods while creating a bunch of garbage for the members!
If you feel you have to make changes…improve the search engines.
Christy B. said,
March 14, 2008 @ 7:50 pm
I sincerely hope that this *improvement* is Re-thought and Removed with all possible speed! Personally, I abhor the idea that some “sub-routine” running on the Yahoo servers is going to try to second-guess my areas of interest and push new groups in my face, or that some Yahootie in a small cubicle is going to attempt to read my mind and make “helpful suggestions”! I am also certain that many group owners/moderators are going to be extremely unhappy about advertisements (disguised as “helpful information”) for other groups popping up all over their groups pages!
If there are Yahoo customers encountering difficulties while trying to find groups which might meet their needs, the obvious answer is to provide good customer service by Improving Your Search Program.
Bella said,
March 14, 2008 @ 8:07 pm
Please do not keep this new feature – it needs to be an opt-in or opt-out feature for the listowners.
This is already being perceived as a privacy invasion issue.
I vote NO if I get a say.
Cynthia
Jan said,
March 14, 2008 @ 8:07 pm
Just had my first taste of the yahoo recommends groups ‘feature’.
on this 890+ member group about 20 members total raw fed their dogs – the rest feed commercial products. It’s a very divisive topic – but how would yahoo know that…..so they thoughtfully promoted a large raw feeding group on the sidebar along with a group for a serious life threating dog disease that we all hope to never have to deal with.
Yup – Yahoo just sharing the happiness.
(and by the way – i already have a separate group set up for members who wish to know more about raw feeding – in fact two such groups – and neither of them were recommended by Yahoo)
I hope this ‘feature’ goes away.
Ron Schalow said,
March 14, 2008 @ 8:09 pm
As a co-owner of several active Yahoo! Groups, I’m glad to see the support for them, but this proposal is not a good idea. It reminds me of Grouply, and I will remove Group members for joining Grouply.
My Groups are part of a specialized hobby niche and many of the related Groups are private for a reason. This will open doors that were intentionally closed by Group owners.
Instead of recommending Groups, please improve the Group Search feature and fix the “absent owner” Groups by contacting active Group members to seek a new owner or deleting the Group after a predetermined period of owner inactivity.
Bottom line, do not implement this feature, even on a voluntary or opt-out basis.
Ron Schalow
Mud Trigg said,
March 14, 2008 @ 8:35 pm
NO, NO, NO! Are you out of your MINDS? What POSSIBLE reason would you have for thinking group members would like their addresses set up for more and more SPAM? For Heaven’s sake, STOP!!! NOW!!! DON’T DO THIS!!!
Mud Trigg said,
March 14, 2008 @ 8:39 pm
My comment just disappeared. I said, NO, NO, NO! DON’T DO THIS!! Are you out of your MINDS??? This will just enable more and more SPAM!!! STOP NOW!!! PLEASE!!!!
nowaywins said,
March 14, 2008 @ 9:48 pm
the Fully Featured mail options already makes mail larger with the added ‘features’ like all the extra links. how much larger will mail be now with this idea. so a member in a active group may see these same ‘Recommendations’ 50 times or more a day and waste how much bandwidth?. i hope your servers are ready to handle the extra load. i also see privacy issues when wrong groups are lumped together with others. as it has been said, you want members to find groups, then improve the search feature. fix the sort order of categories and clean up the dead wood. just deleting the 10% or more of groups with no members or no activity in yrs will help members find groups.
roger
JCP said,
March 14, 2008 @ 9:55 pm
This may have a good idea buried somewhere in it, but it’s being implemented ALL WRONG.
Common membership does NOT equal common interests. Recommended groups would have to be relevant TOPICALLY to be of any value, and recommended groups would need to be functional (no dead, headless groups, etc.). Think Amazon, not MySpace or Facebook. Y Groups is NOT a social networking product. We’d like to keep it that way!
We know how to find other groups of interest. You should improve the SEARCH function instead of using this approach.
>>> Improve the Directory – make it based on keywords instead of on your rather arcane and artificial categories. Then people could search for groups that share a keyword they are interested in. And again, clean out those dead, headless groups from search results.
It appears you have already begun to implement this “feature”. BOO, HISS!
Clearly, most of us don’t want or need this “feature” so please un-implement it!
As a compromise starting point, perhaps if you notify the Moderator(s) and/or Owner(s) of a group what similar groups exist, then let them choose whether and which groups to tell their members about, it would work better.
If you feel you must continue with this “service”, these things must be changed:
1. It should NOT be in emails – put it on the group home page, and able to be turned off like Answers – or put it on My Groups page, and able to be turned off by individual
2. It should be OPT-IN rather than OPT-OUT
3. It should be able to be turned off by groups not wishing to be publicized, WITHOUT de-listing from the Directory
4. It should be able to be turned off by groups not wishing to receive recommendations
5. It should be able to be turned off by individual group members not wishing to receive recommendations
6. Recommendations should be limited to groups that are active and managed (no headless groups).
7. Adult-oriented groups must NOT be recommended to groups that are not also adult-oriented.
8. Stop, reconsider, and then JUST SAY NO!
Debbie said,
March 14, 2008 @ 10:01 pm
I think this is a horrible idea. Many groups have an anti-spam policy, and this very “feature” would violate that in a big way.
It also sounds like member rustling, which is a big no-no in most online communities.
The groups that I am either an owner, member or moderator for are safe havens from targeted spam and member rustling, and I just don’t see how your new “feature” could make things better.
I’d rather not see these new “features” take place if I have my say.
Polybisep said,
March 14, 2008 @ 10:19 pm
Why are the developers at Yahoo spending all their time creating new features instead of getting the existing features to work correctly? It seems that you introduce something new, cram it down the users’ throats regardless of how many objections there are, and after a couple months go on to something else regardless of how many bugs still exist in what you released last year.
c hamilton said,
March 14, 2008 @ 10:27 pm
I think we are wasting our time on this blog, or any communication with yahoo as most or all of it is imagined and not real.
If they cared about what we wanted, they would have gone to RFC1855 Rules of Netiquette which contains hammered out rules on how a discussion list should be formatted and run.
one of those items of course, states that you do not advertise a list on another list. Unless it is also owned by the first list’s owner. even then, it has to be more or less on topic, yada.
but again, we are blowing in the wind here, imnsho….
chas
Rachel said,
March 14, 2008 @ 10:42 pm
I Thought we had freedom to choose what we wanted and didnt want in our own groups…. i mean isnt that the whole purpose of having our own groups at all. But now it seems this is being forced upon us… in the end i cant help but wonder if there is still such a thing as freedom of speech and freedom of choice whats happening here!!!!!
Kathy said,
March 14, 2008 @ 11:45 pm
Thanks, I wondered why I was barely getting any groups mail yesterday afternoon. This morning I realized that almost all the messages that this new “feature” was attached to went into my spam folder. Now I’m having to go through my spam folder to pull them all out and mark them not spam. The junk you added is but I still need to read my messages. Just another “benefit” of this very ill conceived idea.
RS said,
March 15, 2008 @ 1:15 am
And another thing…
The recommendations won’t surface new content for many users. Know why? Because your vaunted system uses common membership to determine “relevance”. Meaning….
The majority of our group members ALREADY KNOW ABOUT THESE GROUPS BECAUSE THEY ARE IN THEM!!!
What ticks me off the absolute most is your complete lack of vision on this. Its a horrible way to run a business or a product. You drop it on us with NO WARNING, no instructions on how to opt out of it (Here’s how, btw, SWITCH YOUR GROUPS MESSAGES TO TRADITIONAL–Just say no to fully featured!), and then you ding-dongs see the degree of negative feedback (we know you saw, Jami said so) and decide to leave it up for the weekend to “see how it goes”. It demonstrates a serious lack of respect and understanding for us.
Why do we bother giving you hours and hours of suggestions on your feedback forum when you ignore the to-do list we give you there and then do utterly boneheaded things like this. Get serious about your product. Put us first. For real. All the goodwill your beta service created for me, all the sense that groups was FINALLY in good hands, all gone. Both your feet, bleeding profusely. Smoking gun, in your hands. Have fun on Monday morning. Hope your bosses are reading this too. Thanks for leaving us hanging over the weekend. Class act. Be a better web developer already. Jeemaneez.
I feel the worst for your users who don’t even realize they can make this feature go away by resetting the message delivery format, and have already delisted their groups from the main registry. I’ve tried to post the how to everywhere I can think of, I hope you all find it. Way to cause utter chaos. Its called market research. If you truly understood us, you wouldn’t need to do so much of it. Take this opportunity, and kill the entire fully featured format as the crap idea it has always been. Leave well enough alone. What will it take for you to hear us?
Kathy said,
March 15, 2008 @ 1:39 am
According to Gordon of yahoo setting to traditional won’t work. The “lists” will be sent to all including those set on traditional. He said the reason they weren’t yet was because only about 10% at this point are receiving those lists attached to their messages.
Rsoella said,
March 15, 2008 @ 1:42 am
I agree,put the opt in feature like the spam filter ,we could turn it off.
Daniele said,
March 15, 2008 @ 2:01 am
I agree, but make it also in Italy
Howard Bingham said,
March 15, 2008 @ 2:12 am
No thank you…!
Your spam filtering stinks big time, most of the messages it stops on two lists I moderate are regular members, yet spammers find ways to get through..
Why am I just getting news about proposed changes in a BLOG..? Why not regular user groups.. To me, blogs are a waste of my time & money..
I like Yahoogroups as it is in the “Traditional” format without bells & whistles..
Make changes & see how fast I move my lists to Googlegroups (I already have several backup lists there, so moving others would be easy..
Howard Bingham
Moderator of 12 Yahoogroups, owner of 6 groups.
.
RS said,
March 15, 2008 @ 2:25 am
Thanks Kathy, I just found that out too. Thanks to No Way Wins for cross posting Gordon’s post from Group of Groups to the Mod Central boards. Wish Yahoo would have done that…
Here’s the snip itself:
“The reason that it may have appeared to work is that currently very
few emails are getting the recommendations (less than 10%). But on
the messages that do get them, they will appear whether the user is
subscribed to fully featured or traditional.”
Posts on the Yahoo Group Of Groups confirm people are seeing this at the bottom of the Traditional messages. No way out of this one, we are stuck with it until Yahoo catches clue. Meaning I have a random 10% chance to get POed all over again any time i get a message via one of my 50 yahoo groups.
What about Daily Digest, does it show up there too? Or did they strap on their hate for us all big time?
Kenn said,
March 15, 2008 @ 2:46 am
I am against this 100%. I feel it is simply spamming a group, by posting other group links on a message board. That is what the links section of a group is for, to put other links of interest in so members can find them. I believe this should be left up to the Owner(s) of a group to decide.
People join groups all the time..for the sole purpose of posting a link to their group(spam) and now Yahoo is going to spam groups?
100% completely against it
Kenn
Nikki said,
March 15, 2008 @ 3:29 am
As you can see, this feature is not wanted! It will take up screen space and cause longer loading times. Many people are still on dial-up believe it or not and this will not work well for them. They may move to another format. Just for the record, I am not on dial-up but some of my members are.
Will adult groups be posted on non-adult groups?
I do not think that this is a good idea! As we cannot control what groups are being advertised, we should not be spamming our members with more information. They receive ads in every post and see banners on every yahoogroups page. Now when you read messages from the group, at times it will take you to an advertisement page before you can continue into the message. This is quite enough!
I understand you can stop your group from being listed but it is very inconvenient to do so because then your group is not listed in the directory. We need to have an option to not have these other groups listed as well.
Thank you for listening to us and I hope that you will re-evaluate this decision after reading all of our comments.
Louise said,
March 15, 2008 @ 3:50 am
I think that this idea is intrusive and objectionable.
I don’t want to have group suggestions made to me based on some commonality that Yahoo perceives.
One feature which could use further development is ‘Search’ but other than that I can’t support making changes which are not only unnecessary but which blatantly goes against a group owner’s rights and freedoms.
Dottie said,
March 15, 2008 @ 4:00 am
Leave well enough alone. I don’t want all that useless, extraneous stuff on the emails.
Just send me my group messages without your added recommendations. I don’t care what Yahoo thinks I might be interested in. Let me decide for myself. I just want simple, straightforward messages, not all cluttered up like they’ve become.
Katherine said,
March 15, 2008 @ 4:06 am
I think that a group should be able to OPT out of this without being removed or delisted.
A few weeks back, Grouply.com added an OPT out feature for Yahoo groups that didn’t want to be involved with Grouply.com, so Yahoo should be able to add an OPT out feature also, if they don’t know how they can ask Grouply to show them how to set up an OPT out feature.
Why would I OPT out of Grouply and then allow Yahoo to do the same thing? Yahoo, WHAT WERE YOU THINKING??????????????????
Our group does not allow spam, but Yahoo already spams the group wether I want it or not, and now they want to make my group their spam as well?.
I resent that I have to endure spam from my own ISP, but my ISP blocks spam from Yahoo, but I can not block my ISP.
Yahoo blocks spam from my ISP, but I have to endure spam from Yahoo, but I can not block Yahoo.
Now, I will have even more wanted spam from Yahoo???? Which I will have to block my ISP from blocking????? so that I can read my email??????
Between the normal spam on my email from the ISP, and the new spam from Yahoo, there will be very little room for me to read or write to the group without scrolling way down to the bottom…… If the smam was out of view unless on scrolled way down to the bottom, that would be fine, but in the PRIME space is not making me happy…..
Catherine Lane said,
March 15, 2008 @ 4:11 am
This is a dreadful idea. One of the goals of my group is to share current, scientific and up to date information on our topic, one that is widely misunderstood and misrepresented on similar yahoogroups. The last thing many of us would wntn to see is these other groups promoted MORE! I hope this doesnt happen. I’ve poured an incredible amount of time and energy into building my group which in many ways stands against the ideas promulgated by other less educated groups. Gee, can’t wait to see these same places advertsised right on the one I’ve built so carefully over the past four years.
Anyone who wants to look at other groups on yahoo need only key in a few words and there they are.
I suppose the only upside is that members of other groups who are not aware of urs may come and join. I’m not aiming to censor people’s choices, but I dont see I need to advertise for the very groups I feel are not doing a very good job with the topic we share in comon.
Cami said,
March 15, 2008 @ 4:19 am
I hate this idea! For all the reasons already stated. If you must do this, please give the list owners a way to turn it off, if they wish. I’m sure you will see that most of them will do just that!
Patty said,
March 15, 2008 @ 4:24 am
Most group owners are unhappy about this idea for very good reasons, but the idea Yahoo had was to help members. So I’m taking a survey of members of my groups and no one single member has wanted this list of groups. Not one! So who are you trying to please? Group owners are not happy and group members are not happy–who does that leave?
Reva said,
March 15, 2008 @ 4:29 am
After having read your proposed group recommendations plan, along with the comments from other group members, I must say that I feel this idea is quite ill conceived.
The good moderators work diligently to ensure that the group members are people that will enhance the group. Those that have deliberately searched out the group based on a like interest. The group recommendation will open the doors for spammers that join group after group in order to get a membership list. Is this REALLY what you want to accomplish?
Although I too find the Yahoo group search a bit difficult at times, I am intelligent enough to attempt different search parameters until I find what I am looking for.
Yahoo mail is well known for the high level of spam received on any given day and making changes that will increase that amount simply does not make sense for your users.
Please! Think this through and offer an opt out if you do choose to implement this plan without consideration to what this will do to those of us that already remove hundreds of spam mail from our systems daily.
Thank you
Dissappointed said,
March 15, 2008 @ 4:37 am
To Jami Heldt, Groups Community Manager
I absolutely hate all the rubbish about related groups Yahoo is suddenly putting in all the e-mails of my groups. If I want to find related groups, I can find them easily enough on the web.
You must know by know how users think about this new feature and yet you are deliberately letting our suffering continue with your “will be reviewing the comments over the next few days and address them in a post next week.”
Your “unlist” suggestion as a kind of opt out is ridiculous as you no doubt will know. You definitely can learn something from Grouply on this point!
” Your feedback is very valuable to us and we appreciate your effort to share your thoughts with us. ” Really? Why don’t I believe this any longer?
“Thank you for your patience!” Is this a joke?
This is so annoying that I am seriously thinking of moving my Yahoo groups to Google!
Qwill said,
March 15, 2008 @ 4:51 am
As a group owner, I think that this is an awful idea. I’ve managed to find all the groups that I want to join without too much work though your Group search feature which, btw, could be improved. I also believe that we should be able to turn off this feature without having to delist our Groups from the directory. If the point is to help various Group members find additional Groups forcing owners to delist from the directory is counterproductive. Not everyone wants to be in 15 groups about the same topic! At a minimum individual group members should be allowed to say whether they want recommendations or not. Forcing this on everyone with no reasonable means of opting out at either the individual or group level makes no sense.
Barbara Gates said,
March 15, 2008 @ 5:06 am
The multiple lines of Yahoo listings that appear at the bottom of each email are already bad enough, so please don’t give us any more stuff to clutter up messages. In my opinion this would be just like spam, and I hope we have the ability to turn it off, or that you forget about it entirely.
BJ GAtes
Peggy said,
March 15, 2008 @ 5:19 am
You are certainly opening up a can of worms with this as well as violating several rules such as no spam, member rustling, and privacy.
Have you even considered the fact that you will be opening the door to more spam and a lot more work for moderators? If someone truly wishes to find a group, the search function is more than adequate. I simply refuse to stay with a group who does not moderate their spam from getting on a list so why in the world would I want more than the message I wish to read?
I also am opposed to an entity monitoring which group(s) I belong to. That is my own personal business and not for publication or phishing. There are millions of people on the internet that prefer their privacy and millions who don’t get on the internet for fear they will lose their privacy.
Ya’ll need to re-think this before jumping in with both feet. Think about the loss of participation because of this invasion. Are you prepared for that?
STOP this before it’s gone too far.
Sheron Goldin said,
March 15, 2008 @ 5:24 am
This would violate the rules of my groups if it is a mandatory add on. While I appreciate a vocal minority of folks who don’t know how to search group listings would like this feature most of my groups members would consider this spam.
Yahoo has said that advertising in messages was targeted to the group topics. This has been proven to have no relationship to reality. So what Yahoo is saying now (based on past experience) is that Yahoo wants to promote other groups to a captive audience against the group owners wishes. At least that’s how I read it.
Not a good idea. Yahoo is promoting spaming (in my eyes) if they go ahead with this. Yahoo would be violating the owners rights to set up the rules for the group if they go ahead with this.
And if I belong to group A (even if I don’t own the group) and don’t want to get this spam but the group owner does choose to allow it how do I turn it off? Do I have to leave the group I enjoy just to stop Yahoo spam?
Cille said,
March 15, 2008 @ 5:56 am
Being a group owner, I feel that this option should be able to be turned off somewhere in the group settings so it doesn’t work for your group if you don’t want it to.
Lou B said,
March 15, 2008 @ 6:04 am
It seems the only way to stop this advertising is to not allow Individual E-mails and make everyone go Digest, Special Notice or No Mail.
Very Unhappy said,
March 15, 2008 @ 6:05 am
This is such a BAD idea!!! A lot of us are in stationery share groups and we are there to view the pretty stationery, not a bunch of garbage covering it up. We are intelligent enough to find our groups of interest on our own without all that mess. We have our own methods of advertising our groups the way WE want to and don’t want this forced on us. Please listen to what people are saying. WE DON’T WANT THIS!!!!!
Rob said,
March 15, 2008 @ 6:09 am
I manage several special-purpose groups. I have already de-listed these groups from the Yahoo! Directory. However, most pf these groups are restricted groups. Since membership must be approved, and so membership is *not* automattic, I was thinking of relisting the groups. However, this idea has made me consider whether I really want to do that. I *will not* list those groups for which membership does not require approval. Some of the groups I mentioned are subsets of another group. The membership does overlap but the members who are not members of the subset groups do not need to be members of each others groups.
I vote no. However, if my vote is overiden, and if owner/moderators can not opt-out of this feature, I will consider asking members of my group to change to “traditional” format as this looks like it will apply to those who get “fully featured” email.
Lynn Manning said,
March 15, 2008 @ 6:28 am
We are already working hard and competing with other groups for members. I do not want other groups advertised on my group.
Sandy in IA said,
March 15, 2008 @ 7:35 am
How do we make this go away! I DO NOT LIKE this in my group emails, and I DO NOT want to go private/unlisted! How can I make it GO AWAY!!!???
Pattie said,
March 15, 2008 @ 8:10 am
I really worry about this feature and its potential for abuse, not only by spammers, but also by those who have shown they wish to disrupt some groups. Many list owners do not allow advertising of other groups on their lists, but now this feature nullifies that and encourages members of small groups ro create dummy accounts to pad numbers. Group owners should have a way to turn this off without unlisting their groups, or at least have some control over which groups are shown to their members.
Nancy said,
March 15, 2008 @ 8:19 am
I think this is a bad idea. The idea of more ads and lists on my Yahoo page is awful.
Liz West said,
March 15, 2008 @ 8:21 am
NO !!!!! This is NOT what we want. You keep filling our emails with very unwanted and unnecessary stuff. Do you realize how much abuse and spam we will be subjected to… This is way out of line and outrageous of you to subject us to this.
Our groups should be a safe place for us to exchange information with our members not be afraid of who might be able to access our group.
You associate “dolls” with porno groups so how are we makers of collector dolls ( you know the ones children play with) being protected from being associated with that kind of invites.
This is NOT in the best interest of the very people you are suppose to service.
Beth said,
March 15, 2008 @ 8:27 am
I really don’t like this idea. I don’t want more spam from Yahoo or anyone else about things it/you think I *might* be interested in. If I want to find out about more groups, I’ll go looking for them. I don’t need or want for them to come looking for me. As another poster said, improve your search engine. Don’t send me a bunch of c**p I don’t want, including e-mail about groups with questionable or obnoxious content that just happen to have members in common with other groups I belong to. THIS IS A REALLY BAD IDEA.
Dee said,
March 15, 2008 @ 8:34 am
Instead of spamming us, why not improve the search feature? I and my members HATE this. If you must do this, please allow us to opt out without making our group opt out of the directory too. In the meantime, I am suggesting, if they are not on no mail status, to go traditional mode, so the spam is at the bottom of the message, where it’s not “in our face”. We can still read messages and not have to scroll to the bottom to see the spam.
Debbie said,
March 15, 2008 @ 8:40 am
I dont’ think it’s a good idea. There are those of us who are on dial up and the less time it takes for an email to go through the better. Besides, we all know how to search for groups that we are interested in. I participate in stationery groups adn I’d rather see the beautiful stationery that all of those advertisements, whether they be recommendations for other groups or for products and services.
Barbara said,
March 15, 2008 @ 8:47 am
gee … didn’t we just fight (and win!) privacy protection from that other service (can’t even remember the name now!)??
Do we ALL need to move our groups to google groups to prevent yahoo from messing with our privacy even more? While I have groups that are small and private, it doesn’t mean I don’t want them listed in a directory, to be found by someone who is looking for us. It DOES NOT, however, mean I want every group I belong to advertised elsewhere.
Big brother really is watching, eh?
Barbara
Mara said,
March 15, 2008 @ 8:58 am
I don’t like it. I have many diverse interests and I’m sure the different groups I’m interested in don’t really want to know about each other. Why not just improve the freaking search functions????????? Every group I have made it into I’ve stumbled into from some other means. I’ve YET to find a Yahoo Group that I actually searched for, unless I had an EXACT name match.
bionicbodger said,
March 15, 2008 @ 9:05 am
no! No! NO! Yahoo – this has to be an opt-in or an opt-out feature for the group leaders – there’s way too much advertising/spam/junk going on already, and we can all search for what we want without Big Brother telling us What We Want – let us make the choices, please.
karen said,
March 15, 2008 @ 9:16 am
So, our mail has to carry ads because some people aren’t smart enough to go to Yahoo groups page, punch in the type of group they like and look for some?
I hate this idea. I am in stationary groups. I do not want my stats weighed down
and uglied up with ads running down the side of the page. You want to add a
link to the bottom the numbskull’s can click to find similar groups and I might be
ok with that. Otherwise I will throw my business at Google groups.
pspjunkie_kathy said,
March 15, 2008 @ 9:22 am
NO NO NO !!!!
We do not allow spam in my groups…so why should members have to put up with this..
I sure hope there is a opt out option for it without having to be a private group..
There are much better things to work on like the search engine and how about uping the size limit you have..
NancyB said,
March 15, 2008 @ 10:06 am
This is an option that I don’t want or need. If I want other related groups, I can ask my friends, who share my interests, what groups they belong to.
Your idea of cross referencing is not usable, at least I don’t think so. I mean after all, I enjoy miniatures, and genealogy and belong to both types of groups. That does’nt mean that people in each group would be interested in the other group.
Diana Gregory said,
March 15, 2008 @ 10:15 am
This is a bad idea. Just because some number of people are on the same set of lists, doesn’t mean they are interested in all the lists that the other folks are on.
At least the recommendations are on the bottom, for those of us who read with plain text – I could ignore them for the most part – but if I’m trying to get to the group links, it’s more junk to scroll past. I’m on dsl, so I’m also not paying for all the extra text, but I can see some folks, like my mother, watching her mail take extra time to download.
And that reminds me of *another* problem. There are people who are reading groups who will look at this as something they *have* to do, and will wind up subscribing to many more lists than they could ever keep up with, because they will think that the recommendations are from the *list*, not Yahoo trying to be “helpful”.
dg
Nubia said,
March 15, 2008 @ 10:20 am
i really don’t like this idea
group owners should have the right to decide to turn on or off this option
and stay listed in the group category
we are not here to make advertising for other groups
Nubia
Nubia said,
March 15, 2008 @ 10:21 am
and more than this
I NEVER ALLOW ADVERTISING for other groups in my group
this is against my group rules
Nubia said,
March 15, 2008 @ 10:24 am
Yahoo will oblige the little groups to make advertising for the biggest groups
this is totaly unfair
and in contrary the little groups links WILL NOT APPEAR in the biggest groups mails
THIS IS REALLY A VERY BAD IDEA
AND NOT FAIR AT ALL
ONE OWNER OF ANY GORUP SHOULD HAVE THE OPTION TO TURN ON OR OFF THIS OPTION IN OUR GROUP MAILS
Bunni said,
March 15, 2008 @ 10:28 am
I am NOT in favor of this new feature! I don’t want more junk in my e-mails. I do not allow group members to advertise other groups and I don’t want Yahoo to take over and put it in my group e-mails. I belong to a listing where owners/mods can list their groups to potential members…and the variety is what makes the list popular with members. I don’t want this and I certainly hope Yahoo gives us the option to turn it off without having to remove my groups from the directory.
RS said,
March 15, 2008 @ 10:28 am
On your suggestion board for groups, a user named “oth” posted the following regarding suggestions and feedback:
“This seems to be a one way street – Yahoo does not reciprocate. They ask for ideas but provide no feedback to members who go out of their way to comply.
Back in 2005 a Yahoo employee made the following statement at a Yahoo Group for Owners and Moderators:
—-
“We have three main goals:
- To give you advanced notice of changes we are planning to make to
Groups (and when possible to give you an opportunity to try out
these changes ahead of time to get your feedback).
- To get your suggestions for new features and improvements we
should be making to Groups.
- To provide answers to complex questions, where Yahoo’s normal help
systems aren’t providing folks the information they need.”
—–”
———–
Goal 1: nnngone! Far more fails than wins at this. This is a classic example.
Goal 2: Failed, since you are not acting on any of them and instead do this malarkey.
Goal 3: Where? This is meager at best at this point. Its better than the zero you had before, but still very minimal. Jami has done a good job overall, but you guys have info spread out all over the place. Mod central boards, your blog, the suggestion boards, YGOG…CENTRALIZE. Get it all in one place. Crosspost it. Get yourselves truly organized. And above all, tell us more about your projects and processes. We could have saved you this huge problem and backlash if you’d told us it was coming, and gotten feedback before even starting to code it.
We need a list of ALL your current projects, so we can tell you NOW which ones are good and which ones are a waste of time and energy. If I was one of your coders I would be very upset I spent all my time on something that (we hope) will be discontinued within a week. Of course, with a secure job and being paid by the hour, maybe I wouldn’t care as much… who knows. I can’t believe this got to this stage without being stopped. Let us save you from yourselves. This wrecked my groups experience. I dread my next message now. If there was a viable alternative, I would have been gone when Fully Featured first came out. You’ve coasted on the successful old eGroups product long enough (which no one asked you to alter, by the way). Someone out there is going to replace you someday, very soon if you don’t catch on, and make your talk real.
Lane Knox said,
March 15, 2008 @ 10:47 am
I run several groups that are of ‘local interest’ that I (intentionally) keep people from other areas out of … because their membership is not relevant to the group (since you have to be local to get the full benefit of the group) … so having people from outside the area involved destroys the intended focus of the group. So far, I’ve been very effective in keeping my groups focused (because i turn people down who don’t live nearby/aren’t available to participate in face-to-face events tied to the group’s online presence) because I hand-approve every request to join.
If you don’t allow me the ability to turn off the ‘recommendations’ for my groups–WITHOUT me having to remove the group from the directory–then I’m going to get buried in a ton of requests from people who aren’t in the area … that I’m going to have to handle individually. And if you force me to remove my group from the directory to keep the amount of moderator work to a minimum … then no one will be able to find my groups.
So the moderators need an “opt-out” choice to stop their group from being ‘recommended’ that doesn’t include being removed from the directory.
Granted, I’m not real happy about the idea of having more billboards on our group email either (recommendations or otherwise) … but I understand that you run a business that needs revenue … and the only way you can keep it ‘free’ (so that everyone can join) is to encourage ad revenue … so I support that. I just don’t like the idea of having even MORE roadside clutter on my information superhighway. Besides, I’m already an owner/moderator/member of over 50 Yahoo Groups already. I don’t want/need to know about any more ‘-)
Nubia said,
March 15, 2008 @ 10:48 am
Yahoo should send to ALL GROUP OWNERS AND MODERATORS from ALL GROUPS not only the biggests ones
a questionnary about this new feature
with a date to answer
and take note before decide anything of the answers they will receive of all group owners
our voice count it seems
sheila said,
March 15, 2008 @ 10:49 am
are you kidding? all yall do is sit aound and think of ways to piss off everyone huh? a lot of group owners require people to put a gif as a attachment just so no one sees the groups footer. wow i see a whole new set of complaints. some owners are so paranoid about people stealing there members it not funny. this will be very interesting. i think i will sit back and lmao. ty sheila
fp said,
March 15, 2008 @ 10:52 am
I do not like this one bit for myself or for my groups. Members have already complained to me — while I see some that do like – cannot owners be given a way to opt out for their groups is so desired. If I want to find other groups, I know how without the extras added to my post.
Mary Lou Hasara said,
March 15, 2008 @ 11:00 am
This is a bad idea. Even within groups needing approval to enter people sneak in and send out spam. This stupid idea of yours will make this even worse. Also I am on one group that was started because of a problem with the leadership of another group. We don’t need or want any crossovers who will come in just to start trouble.
Judy said,
March 15, 2008 @ 11:02 am
Why can’t Yahoo leave well enough alone? Time and again, we are constantly NOT getting our mail, because Yahoo is “playing” with something else, “trying” to make it better???? Well , it doesn’t happen!!
Now because the majority don’t use your “fully featured” so you can put whatever cut up stuff you want, we want and use Traditional, so everything stays where it’s supposed to.. NOW you are going to mess up things even MORE?? PLEASE DON”T DO THIS!!!!!
Irene de Villiers said,
March 15, 2008 @ 11:05 am
I absolutely abhor this new idea. I have worked hours per day for more than ten years to develop my groups and collect the special interest people omn them into one place. This work is now to be stolen in effect? Any time by any other group who put in no time?
I sure do not want that work going for free to whoever has a newer group and wants to steal my members for it wihtout doing any work to find them. The database of members of my list/s is not up for grabs!
This is abuse in my book – someone starts a list and then joins mine (conveniently advertised to them on their useless list) in order to get members either directly by their list advertised on mine or indirectly by acces to email addresses on my list – with no work – using MY work over many years to obtain my member database. Good gried! Did yahoo not think this through?
I Do NOT want other groups advertised in mine, Yahoo is abusing the hard work of list owners like myself who have grown and developed our *SPECIAL INTEREST* groups over more than a decade. It’s HARD to put togegther a special interest set of people – and now Yahoo wants to make the results of this work available free to anyone out there?
NO WAY!
Free Advertizing of/to other similar groups MUST not be forced on us as list owners. That is just wrong.
Finding other groups can be made easier in the group search area
but NOT by abusing the memeber database of a list that took huge amounts of work to develop as Yahoo proposes.
Please revise this abhorrent idea. Other groups may NOT advertise for free in a group on which I spend several hrs per day for ten years.
That’s a lot of MY work which Yahoo wants to dish out to others for free.
They may WANT it for free – but that is not equitable.
I can’t stress enough – It’s a LOT of work to develop a group and to accumulate members in a specific subject area. That amounts to a copyright database of members – a set – it is NOT okay for others to use as an advertising base for a list that does no work to find memebrs. It’s STEALING the value I put into this for many years.
This is what will happen – it is thus not easier for individuals to find a list so much as easier for someone to hi-jack a list’s memebrs.
I see my member list as a copyright database I built up – so advertising it to other groups by putting them inh MY list emails is a violation.
I do not need my group advertised elsewhere either i other lists – people can find it the usual way. (Word of mouth and Yahoo search.)
This new idea can only benefit those who did no work, and violates those who put work into developing their list – and make it easy for special interest people to steal whole databases of emaijl addresses.
The fact that they are munged does not stop individual emails to such a collection of pre-selected people for a subject. I want MEMEBERS to have such access – but genuine ones, not those who join to abuse Yahoo’s new proposed feature – which is a huge invitation to this and other abuses.
The principle is wrong wrong wrong.
Namaste,
Irene
Rock Z said,
March 15, 2008 @ 11:24 am
I would suggest that there be an option that group mail owner could join together a group want to join up with others. Like for example now one of our group would like to join with another. Some sort of forwarding to each group where both group mails can read. If this can be done, it would also be nice to have an option where the group owner or moderators can select individuals or select all who can recieve the joint mailing groups. I am not familiar if there is already an option that can do this. So far I have not discovered this one yet.
Dewitt Gimblet said,
March 15, 2008 @ 11:44 am
Is it really the case that no one at Yahoo!Groups was able to foresee how group owners, moderators, and members were going to react to this feature? Are you that out of touch with your user base? Certainly a person or two on the team must have predicted what was going to happen. Promote them! And, next time, listen to them.
deg
Angel said,
March 15, 2008 @ 11:47 am
we shouldn’t have to put up with these links in our group, we should be able to turn this off for our groups. because alot of the groups don’t allow the advertising of other yahoo groups in their group. I never had a problem finding a group for the subjects that i wanted. it’s called searching the groups listings.
Emily said,
March 15, 2008 @ 12:05 pm
Nubia said
“Yahoo will oblige the little groups to make advertising for the biggest groups
this is totaly unfair
and in contrary the little groups links WILL NOT APPEAR in the biggest groups mails”
This is true, and I find it really annoying. My group is being forced to provide links to the larger list from which we spun off because it was too big and impersonal. That larger list is not providing a link to us though. It is indeed totally unfair.
Kay said,
March 15, 2008 @ 12:10 pm
I’m not remotely interested in seing this feature on my groups. Aside from the fact that it violates every policy we have in place against spam, member rustling, unwarranted ads – the additional clutter on the desktop is totally distracting.
What the heck are search engines for? That’s how I found my groups in the first place.
I don’t consider this a move forward at all. It’s taking a system that works and breaking it. Why?
Nubia said,
March 15, 2008 @ 12:14 pm
yes i have a good exemple
i will not name the groups
today i saw the mails of 2 groups i am member
group XX with 1000 members and group YY with 200.000 members
the group XX have the link of the group YY inside his mails because it’s a very large group
but the group YY don’t have the link of this same little group XX even they have common members, but it has links of other big groups
THIS SHOW WE WILL ONLY ADVERTISE THE BIGGEST GROUPS, and the little groups will have no reciprority
this is really not fair
IT IS LIKE IF YAHOO OBLIGE ALL GROUPS TO ADVERTISE TGE BIGGEST ONLY
Nora Jean Gatine said,
March 15, 2008 @ 12:14 pm
========================================================================
Groups related to CITY-o-Clay
========================================================================
clay-polymer (488 common members)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/clay-polymer?v=1&t=ipt&ch=email&pub=groups&slk=aftr0&sec=recg
Crafts/Polymer Clay: Thanks for stopping by the best little polymer
gro…
MiniScenesAndThings (175 common members)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MiniScenesAndThings?v=1&t=ipt&ch=email&pub=groups&slk=aftr1&sec=recg
Collecting/Miniatures and Figurines: Welcome to our main reception room
to Mini Scenes …
MiniatureCollectorsClub (155 common members)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MiniatureCollectorsClub?v=1&t=ipt&ch=email&pub=groups&slk=aftr2&sec=recg
Collecting/Miniatures and Figurines: Welcome to the Miniature
Collectors Club! Whether …
NoviceSculptors (153 common members)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NoviceSculptors?v=1&t=ipt&ch=email&pub=groups&slk=aftr3&sec=recg
Visual Arts/Sculpture: This group is for novice sculptors and
experienced…
MSATMiniDolls (146 common members)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MSATMiniDolls?v=1&t=ipt&ch=email&pub=groups&slk=aftr4&sec=recg
Hobbies & Crafts/Crafts: MINIDOLLS This is the Home Page for the
MiniDolls …
++++++
Oh this is rich. One of those lists mentioned is part of a list “family” that we LEFT. No love lost, but I resent seeing their link. I don’t care how many list members we have in common. I am roaring with laughter that other Yahoo Groups with common members to COC are seeing our link, when some of them HATE OUR GUTS. Maybe that’ll give them motivation to protest here.
This “common member” bit of pretty code is beyond stupid.
FIX YOUR GROUP SEARCH ENGINE instead of making everyone angry.
DELETE YAHOO GROUPS WHERE THE OWNER IS MIA instead of adding them to a useless search.
REMEMBER WE BRING HITS AND EYEBALLS TO YOUR PORTAL and if you alienate us we have other places to go, e.g. google groups.
IS THIS THE THANKS WE GET for years of developing Yahoo Groups?
This bit of code is UGLY, STUPID, INTRUSIVE, SPAM, and in violation of common courtesy tradition on any email list.
Is there anyone reading these protest comments? Anyone with the foresight enough to realize that this protest will effect the bottom line? Do you want to loose groups? Is that your intention? If so, then you’re being successful in making people who have been loyal to Yahoo Groups for years feel like they just got a kick in the belly. So much for loyalty, I suppose. It’s a sad day.
I apologized to my list members. I gave them the link to this blog. I asked them to post a protest comment if they don’t like this “recommendation” (cum implementation without feedback consideration.) I hope they come in droves, with lit torches storming the castle, mouths open howling …” STOP THIS MADNESS!”
Irene Kraus (ComputerLady) said,
March 15, 2008 @ 12:15 pm
Ohhhh boy! Does anyone else remember the fiasco that ensued when Yahoo first add the panel for their ANSWERS section? The home page for my group (small business discussion) was suddenly showing VERY inappropriate Q&A topics. Eventually *that* got resolved by establishing categories for the questions, and allowing us – the group owners – to choose what category to allow.
Seems like we’re going to have to go through this again!
I’m not going to echo the many concerns I have in regard to this (more junk within messages, lack of opt-in, doubt over validity of ’suggestions’), as I see many others have covered those areas. I would like to support some of the many suggestions made here to improve the search functions for finding groups! Lost count of the times that I’ve tried to find a group dedicated to one topic or another only to give up as I can’t figure out what search terms to use.
‘Nuff said for now….
Bloomie said,
March 15, 2008 @ 12:18 pm
Hogwash!
Theres already a way to search out groups of relevant interest.
This would be an unwelcome intrusion, I do everything possible to avoid receiving spam and/or unwanted advertising.
If it’s implicated regardless of the responses to Yahoo against it, I sure hope group owners have the option to turn this feature off.
Nubia said,
March 15, 2008 @ 12:22 pm
YOU DIDN’T EXPLAIN HOW YOU CHOOSE THE GROUPS WHICH WILL APPEAR ON YOUR ADVERTISING
I CAN SEE YOU ONLY SHOW 5 GROUPS OF THE SAME CATEGORY AND ONLY THE BIGGEST ONES
SO YOU ARE PARTIAL AND DON’T LET THE PLACE OF ANY CREATIVITY AND YOU WANT TO ADVERTISE THE MASS ONLY
THIS IS REALLY NOT GOOD
IN CONTRARY WHEN A MEMBER SEARCH IN YAHOO SEARCH HE HAVE ACCESS TO ALL THE LIST OF GROUPS AND THIS IS MUCH BETTER
THIS IS ONCE MORE A WASTE OF EFFORT AND MUCH IRRITATING FOR US
Marie said,
March 15, 2008 @ 12:34 pm
Well I guess YAHOO doesn’t give a darn about what we owners/mods want, they have started adding the links to the e-mail. I had two come through to day with them. And they must go on as the E-Mail goes off the post board because they were not there when I checked the post before sending it.
Thanks for nothing Yahoo – we they did not listen to us – those links are on the E-Mail and what’s nmore none of them have a thing to do with my Six Pics group they are not even close.
Nubia said,
March 15, 2008 @ 12:42 pm
SO YAHOO OBLIGE EVERYONE TO SPAM
WHEN WE GIVE SO MANY EFFORTS TO FIGHT AGAINST SPAM
THIS IS A NON SENSE
SOON WE WILL HAVE SO MANY ADVERTASING AND TEXT FROM YAHOO INSIDE OUR MAILS SINCE THEY MADE THIS FULL FEATURE MODE THAT THE REAL CONTENT OF THE MAIL WILL BE LOST
AND THE MEMBERS WILL BE BORRED AND LEAVE YAHOO GROUPS
Marie said,
March 15, 2008 @ 12:43 pm
Well I guess YAHOO doesn’t give a darn about what we owners/mods want, they have started adding the links to the e-mail today, when yesterday they “didn’t know when they would start” what a large lie that was.
I had two come through to day with them. And they must go on as the E-Mail goes off the post board because they were not there when I checked the post before sending it.
Thanks for nothing Yahoo – I thought we were pretty clear on our feelings for the past two days – in case you didn’t read our feelings were NO WAY, NO DON’T, PLEASE DON’T, NO NO NO NO NO. What don’t you understand about the letters N O.
What’s more the links on my Six Pics posts are not even close to being a match or have anything to do with our site, I checked them myself – you are off base about 1000 miles or more. We told you that would happen. We ask you to let us tell you what our site was so you wouldn’t do just this. We asked you to give us a way to delete or prevent this, we suggested you use the home page or the link area, what more do we have to do pull every group we have and take it elsewhere. WHY DON’T or WON’T YOU LISTEN??????!!!!!!
I am in the process of writing a note to my people explaining what is going on and I am sending the information at the top of this forum to them, and I will advise my owner as well. I am also telling them that the owners and mods don’t want this and I am going to suggeset that they ignore any of those links since they have nothing to do with our group and I have found one that is not even GP or GP-13.
We also have a group called Family Friendly that will send out your link for you if it is family friendly once a week on their news post. At least with them we have the option of adding our site or taking it off again if we wish. I am going to suggest my members look at that list instead since I send it on to them and ignore the links Yahoo has chosen.
Am I angry – yes I a – I am very GURRRRRR
Marie – Mod – Six Pics
David said,
March 15, 2008 @ 12:46 pm
This is spam!
Some of the groups I’m already seeing on my emails are groups that have been problematic to the function of my own list, and I don’t want them advertised on my yahoogroups. If Yahoo plans to continue with this they MUST give the list admin the ability to turn the feature off. Otherwise I intend to move my entire list of 1000+ list members to another service.
I don’t know how much longer this beta will continue, but if it doesn’t stop soon, I will move. This act undermines the privacy of my group.
Please, cease and desist.
Marie said,
March 15, 2008 @ 12:47 pm
Sorry about a double post with only the first two paragraphs in the first one, that shows just how angry I am – my fingers typed so fast they tripped over themselves before I was finished.
David said,
March 15, 2008 @ 12:50 pm
You can remove your group from the Yahoo Group directory to make it unlisted if you do not want it to appear in recommendations. However, we highly encourage you to stay listed as this will help interested members find you. Visit Groups Help for instructions on how to remove your group from the directory: <<<<
This is outrageous. You’re essentially saying that if we don’t comply, the only solution is to remove our group from the directory, which means considerably less traffic to our groups. That’s not fair! We should have the option of turning this feature off if we don’t want it.
Nubia said,
March 15, 2008 @ 12:51 pm
i agree with you David
I DON’T WANT TO MAKE FREE ADVERTISING FOR ANY GROUP TIO MY 19950 MEMBERS
AND TO BOTHER THEM WITH ADVERTISING INSIDE THE MAILS
THIS IS AGAINST ALL MY GROUP RULES
Stephanie Hunt-Crowley said,
March 15, 2008 @ 12:52 pm
Personally, when I read this, I sighed:
>>while they love the groups they are currently members of, it’s often very difficult for them to discover other relevant groups that they might also be interested in joining.<<
Well, are these people that have never been on the internet before? There is word that they should learn – it is spelled S-E-A-R-C-H. Anyone can search for other groups, and see what is out there, read the brief synopsis, go to the home page, check what is written there, look and see if the group is active or dead. IMO this is a waste of corporate time and money in order to satisfy the needs of the least able. Anyone with a lick of sense can find anything they need right now. All this will do is pander to the kind of group member that cant figure out how anything works. I am a list/group moderator – and in my view, moderators want members with a brain! Now if Yahoo can give me a more reasonable explanation eg the advertisers want more page views, whether we like it or not, it makes sense. But because people cant find what is front of their noses? That does NOT make sense!
Nubia said,
March 15, 2008 @ 12:55 pm
i agree with you stephanie
yahoo think all members are dumb and not able to search for what they need
it’s partial to give them a little choise of 5 names only
or this is a false reason to advertise the biggest groups which are in feature groups only
Nubia said,
March 15, 2008 @ 12:58 pm
You can remove your group from the Yahoo Group directory to make it unlisted if you do not want it to appear in recommendations. However, we highly encourage you to stay listed as this will help interested members find you. Visit Groups Help for instructions on how to remove your group from the directory: <<<<
yes david this is OUTRAGEOUS
this means yahoo choosed already
we accept or we are not more on the lists
they don’t care of us, they only care of groups more than 100.000 members
there is much more that what said as explanations behind all of this
Nubia said,
March 15, 2008 @ 1:08 pm
I ADVICE EVERYBODY TO CHANGE HIS GROUP OF CATEGORY IF THIS IS POSSIBLE AND TO CHOOSE A CATEGORY MORE SUITABLE THAN “Entertainment & Arts” OR “friends” who have very big groups which will be the only ones to gain advertising on the back of the little ones
Carolyn said,
March 15, 2008 @ 1:08 pm
This is more like a spam use of social networking software. Have you done a market analysis to see if people (group users, group owners – not advertizers) are even interested in a function like this??? Or is this driven by advertisers who, I realize, make it possible to even have free groups and so it will be stuffed down our throats even if it degrades your services? While you are a dominate site for groups – history has shown that if a company destroys their product people will defect to one that is more useful. You are not the only game in town.
Posts here seem to be running more against that for this. If something isn’t broken don’t fix it. Things don’t need to change with new “features” (aka bugs and spam at times) if what you have is a solid product that is working well. Refining your search function would be far, far more useful. What you have is so primative. Making your categories more specialized would also be far more useful.
As a list owner of a group that is already getting too big (and some smaller groups too), I’d hate to have to deal with more members who don’t make the effort to find the group on their own. When someone searches out the group on their own you know they are either a spammer or actually really interested in the group itself. There is already a problem with people who join groups thinking they are something they are not, who then create upheaval on the group until they realize the group isn’t going to morph into what they want, then they storm off… This would make this kind of problem much, much worse. On my lists I have a place where people can put links to related groups so that others already on my list can find them IF THEY ARE INTERESTED ENOUGH TO LOOK!! I think that is the key – interested enough to look.
This is sort of like saying, OK so if I am on a list for, say, breast cancer I might be interested in lists about other kinds of cancer just because others are. Nope. Wouldn’t be. OR saying I am on a list about making mini’s in a certain scale so I might be interested in all scales. Some people are, but not me. My lapytop screen is already too small to deal effectively with all the crap on the right of the screen and you are planning to add more???
I don’t want to make the group private to avoid this function because then no one could find it and it would stagnate as a group. It sounds like you want to drive out the groups that have owners who don’t want to have this crammed down their throats. You may be the biggest thing out there but don’t act like a bull in a china closet. Might doesn’t always mean you have the best ideas even if you have the ability to stuff it down unwilling throats.
We, as listowners, need to be able to turn this off for any given group OR you need to create something on the links page so that if someone is looking for stuff like this you have a link that goes to a yahoo site that can list groups someone might be interested in. It needs to be kept OFF of the messages. It needs to be only visible to people who are interested in this. On a group I was trying to get started I might be interested because then I know you’d cross list my group OR members of my group might join another group and then mention my group (this is how we often find members in the beginning since your search function stinks), on a group that is getting large I would not want to solicit more members. Those with real interest who went out looking fine, but I don’t want to advertise a big group. Groups can get too big and that destroys them, they then become too time consuming to keep them well behaved…
Have you thought about having individuals on the list pick an option that they can get a periodic e-mail about other groups they might be interested in? It would acheive your purpose without cluttering the screen and lists of people who are not interested. After all – it is the people who are interested that you want to target. Correct? Spamming usually doesn’t work. Talk with someone in marketing to see how specific targeting of interested customers (and the interested customer is NOT everyone on the list) is more effective than spam or flooding the market with advertsing. You’d achieve your same ends (unless there is a hidden agenda we don’t know about) without pissing off a lot of people.
“Good will” and “trust we won’t be spammed” are priceless assets of yahoo that gives you a competative advantage. Don’t screw it up by implementing a spam approach to this. It takes far longer to get trust and good will back than it does to build it to begin with. While you know the numbers better than I do, you do have competators waiting in the wings to try to swipe some of your market share. Don’t hand them a silver spoon.
THINK before you act PLEASE!! Take into account our concerns. If you are going to do this regardless of what people think then at least implement features that allow a customized use of this rather than a blanket, one size fits all spam fest.
Thank you.
Nubia said,
March 15, 2008 @ 1:13 pm
” In response to this feedback, the Yahoo! Groups team is testing a new feature that will make this process easier and surface recommended groups based on common members between groups. These recommendations will appear in the right hand column of Groups emails.”<<<
why any member should have any interest in one other group with this criteria of number of common member
the criteria should be THE INTEREST of the members, so the category of the groups
this is a non sense criteria
if they have common members they will receive the same mails from all the groups they are members and will receive them in duplicate
this is really s strange idea of criteria
Jessica said,
March 15, 2008 @ 1:32 pm
I completely can not stand this idea! I run a group for sharing Incredimail stationary and this will completely mess up the look of the stationary that is shared! If this is what is going to happen I will move my groups to Google or MSN. Again I think this idea is DUMB!
Nubia said,
March 15, 2008 @ 1:45 pm
Yes Jessica already they messed up with the featured mode instaed of traditionnal
and this uggly text which come in the middle of our mails
sharon said,
March 15, 2008 @ 1:47 pm
I don’t like this idea. I use incredimail and I do not want my stationary messed up. Start your own group
Lunytuner michele said,
March 15, 2008 @ 1:50 pm
I’ve been part of a group for over ten years and it works great just like it is. You are tying to fix something that is not broken. IF I want to join another group then I will go look for another one. I don’t want to be “force-fed” other groups. To me it’s like… here I am selling oranges and doing just fine and then you come along and add half a dozen more places where my folks can go to buy someone else’s oranges. Is that right by me? Not hardly. I’m an easy going, laid back kinda gal but don’t screw with my oranges.
Those of us that form in groups do so for a reason and that is to establish a bond of like minded people that form their own community and have the privacy to go about their own business in their own “little world” knowing they are among trusted and valued friends. For some of us, our groups are our sanctuary and the new “recommendation” smells like invasion to me.
I sincerely hope you will consider this move. Change can be a good thing but this is going to be sending a LOT of folks scampering elsewhere to ‘group’ in peace. If you aren’t real careful the only thing you are going to be picking out of your pockets is lint because too many folks really aren’t liking the idea of having their mail messed with …
Terri said,
March 15, 2008 @ 1:51 pm
i dont think this is a good idea at all unless there will be a way to turn it off…im in a few incredimail stationary sharing groups and i dont want a bunch of BS adds in the way of viewing the stationary that im looking at and trying to decide if its one i want or not. i dont want stuff in the way of reading my emails or anything like that. i personally think if they wanna make it easier to find groups they need to better and improve their GROUP SEARCH ENGINE. not SPAM other groups out in OUR emails.
nowaywins said,
March 15, 2008 @ 2:13 pm
this is an example of how this works. my group description for sharinglinks…
“What we do here is post links to fun and interesting places we’ve come across in our travels through the vastness of the web”
on my posts, here is one ‘related’ link they showed, HACK_INDIA …
“HACK! HACK! HACK! HACK! HACK! HACK! HACK! HACK! HACK! HACK ANYTHING..ANYTIME..ANYWHERE…
HACK ANY E MAIL PASSWORD .[YAHOO..HOTMAIL..REDIFFMAIL..ETC]”
as you can see, they are closely related. nice job yahoo.
instead of giving us new poorly working features, how about fixing features that are broken instead. profile photo upload, broke. group sort, broke. upload photo to group home , broke.
roger
Wanda said,
March 15, 2008 @ 2:43 pm
you want to help Y-Groups individual members find better and more interesting groups then improve your SEARCH feature at Y-Groups…. Leave it up to List Owners as to what is and is not permitted in their list messages… aside from your normal advertising..
Chevy said,
March 15, 2008 @ 2:45 pm
I definitely think this is a bad idea and there should be some way to turn it off other than make our groups unlisted.
I have done a lot to promote my own group in legitimate ways. I also work very hard to keep spammers out of my groups and to also keep out people who just want to join to post the link to their own group. To me this is SPAM.
I don’t allow anyone to join just to post the URL to their own group.
I’m afraid there are also banned members who have tried really hard to create copycat groups and I would hate to think that my group would be advertising their group.
Bad, bad, bad, idea.
Please give us a way to turn this feature off without having to have our groups unlisted.
Betty Fellows said,
March 15, 2008 @ 3:08 pm
This is a terrible idea. I don’t allow advertising on my lists and will not allow it. So why should this advertising of other people’s lists be allowed by yahoo. At the very least, Yahoo should allow group owners to have an opt out for their lists. Better yet, yahoo should have an opt in so list owners can sign up if they are interested.
YahooGroups has so many good features, why are you trying to ruin it and drive us elsewhere?
Eskies said,
March 15, 2008 @ 3:14 pm
This is HORRIBLE! I don’t want it on my group and neither does my co-owner. We want it turned off. Looks like a good time to leave Yahoo Groups and start a forum where none of this happens!
gh said,
March 15, 2008 @ 3:16 pm
I sure hope that yahoo folks are reading these comments because from everything I’ve read there are very few that want this or think it’s a good idea. Jami and Gordon are you passing along the sentiments?
What I’d like to know is where did you get this feedback from? That folks wanted these recommendations pasted to their email messages. I can’t imagine anyone asking yahoo to add more junk to an email than we already have.
Re: The Grouply.com problem. Instead of working on this list spamming idea why not protect group members by dealing with the grouply situation. Why not add a place or an email folks can go and voice concerns without it having to be about a specific group when it is about all groups. Grouply is something that in talking with other group owners they didn’t want. Why did Yahoo not step up to the plate and put a stop to this?
Karen said,
March 15, 2008 @ 3:23 pm
I really don’t want members to join my groups out of curiosity having clicked on it without thinking. I also don’t want to promote other groups. Sometimes it’s best to just recognize a bad decision and get rid of it. I sure would, however, like to hear what Yahoo thinks about Grouply and will do to protect us. And I’d love to hear the real idea behind all of this. Is it just to get more people to join groups in order to increase advertising fees?
Nubia said,
March 15, 2008 @ 3:33 pm
I AM MAD OF ANGER TO SEE WHAT GROUPS ARE ADVERTISING IN MY OWN GROUP NOW
SPECIALLY ONE OF THEM AGAINST WHO I COMPLAIGNED SO MANY TIMES BECAUSE THEY EDITED AND COPIED MY ART WORK
AND NOW YAHOO OBLIGE ME TO ADVERTISE THEM
I AM MAD THIS NON SENSE MUST STOP
Denise said,
March 15, 2008 @ 3:35 pm
I hate this idea. Please stop this insanity. I definately don’t need more text added to the bottom of my group posts, and I certainly don’t need recommendations on other groups to join.
If this continues, I will be looking for an alternative to yahoo groups.
Nubia said,
March 15, 2008 @ 3:39 pm
I POSTED A MAIL TO MY GROUP AND ASKED MY MEMBERS TO FORWARD TO ALL GROUPS THEY ARE MEMBERS TO COMPLAIN AGAINST THIS NON-SENSE FEATURE AND ALLOW US TO HAVE THE POSSIBILITY TO TURN OFF THIS FEATURE IF WE REFUSE IT
NUBIA
Gil. said,
March 15, 2008 @ 3:55 pm
Yahoo has come up with some lulus in the past but this beats all. Has it never occurred to whoever dreams up ideas like this that there are many groups covering more or less the same topic because they DO NOT agree with one another? Why in heavens name would I want the sometimes clueless people who come to one of my lists for help to be diverted to a group that I KNOW will feed them the worst sort of information?
Fix the really lousy Search function in Yahoo instead of pulling a boner like this.
Holly said,
March 15, 2008 @ 3:55 pm
I think it is bad idea as well.. not in themessgaes,, it should go on the groups home page.. or make it up to the owner.. there are members who already advertise thee groups in the signatures and that is fine for me
)
Tracy said,
March 15, 2008 @ 4:31 pm
I have spam blocker on my computer for a reason. Now you are proposing spamming my email even more than the daily dose I get by having yahoo??
If you follow thru with this plan and make it permanent without any way to turn this off, I will just move my groups to a different network. Also..my group is local to 1 specific area, I don’t allow members from all over to join. I don’t want my group to be sent out to others, others who won’t be allowed to join. What about the closed lists? There are alot of them on here. Lists that are for a precious few to stay in touch with each other. Your heart is in the right place but those who can’t navigate Yahoo groups, to find what they want…don’t need their hands held and lead to other groups. They need to get off their backsides and search. Heck thats how most of us found this place!
Julie said,
March 15, 2008 @ 4:37 pm
Don’t like it. Should be able to turn feature off.
Joe said,
March 15, 2008 @ 5:06 pm
I have a number of groups. I am also a member of many.
I see this as possibly being beneficial to some group members. But as a list owner I see it as a disaster.
You really should make it optional
Steve said,
March 15, 2008 @ 5:09 pm
What a waste of time and effort.
Why don’t you fix 360 First. As so many people are going to other sites.
What a waste of my time.
I do not want my details referrred to any other groups.
I am 100% against it.
I get enough spam as it is , fix that first.
Bill Zardus said,
March 15, 2008 @ 5:29 pm
Please STOP sending me mesages from a yahoo group telling me to respond to a blog !!!
If I gave a damn about blogs why would I be using yahoo groups ????
Are the people posting to Blogs using Yahoo groups to ask people
to respond to their messages ????
The people at yahoo.Inc need to pull your heads out of your butts and figure out what you are doing. You are on the verge of ruining a great product. I just changed my subscription to “Special Notices” only so I wont be bothered with this crap any more.
Bill Zardus
ccdogpark@ yahoo.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Dogpark-National-News/
Bill Zardus said,
March 15, 2008 @ 5:38 pm
Judging by the way yahoo Yahoo.INC usually does things, they will be promoting dead groups that have been abandoned by the one and only moderator years ago and my members will be invited to join a SPAMfest.
Get rid of the porn groups and unmoderated dead groups before you worry about useless stuff like this.
Just because groups have a lot of “activity”, that does not mean they serve any useful purpose.
WRZ
Karen said,
March 15, 2008 @ 5:40 pm
This really should be an optional service that group owners can opt out on. I don’t allow members to post messages with advertising of other groups and don’t want Yahoo to inflict this on my group either. Also a lot of groups give bad information, have uncaring bad advice, etc. etc. I do not want to promote them in any way, and having their site on each and every email is promoting them. .
Some of the groups in the same category as mine have no owners, spam and porn is about the only messages they get as they are totally unmoderated. Should kids that join my group have access to this information that they can get just with a click at the bottom of every email? Is Yahoo going to make sure every site that they recommend is safe? Are they going to regulate who runs the groups and make sure they all have active responsible owners that give good advice?
Also, the digests are getting almost unreadable as it is, would this junk be attached to every email in there?
Lou Gastuch said,
March 15, 2008 @ 6:22 pm
YES! It’s being tagged onto each and every email.
Oh, My God, please make it STOP!
We need to be able to opt in if we want it, to keep all that uh-stuff from the emails, and and for group management to control if and when they want recommendations.
BTW, what gives YOU (Yahoo, that is) to determine if my group would be palatable to another’s demographics.
Finally, isn’t this only just slightly this side of address farming?
Sharon said,
March 15, 2008 @ 7:18 pm
Beta I dont like, grouply I dont like, these new ideas I definately donot like. I really hope yahoo listens .IF they want to improve things- get rid of all these groups that have no moderator and is filled with porn garbage.
Clarence Bakken said,
March 15, 2008 @ 7:36 pm
The groups I moderate are for the members of the groups only. So it’s imperative that this be opt-in rather than opt-out. Consider the privacy of people who just want to get communications from their own group and not be linked to other groups, no matter how compelling that may be to some folks in other groups. There needs to be a time between when it’s turned on and when it goes into effect so that people can make the correct decision for their group and group members.
Carrie said,
March 15, 2008 @ 7:42 pm
Oh goodness, I think this is just awful! I do not like the idea one bit. In my opinion, as a group owner, we really ought to have the option to opt out of this feature.
Rajesh Kainth said,
March 15, 2008 @ 8:20 pm
This new proposal, though is being created with good intention, but its going to create a lot of chaos also. One very fundamental right of the group owners will be marred by imposing this feature. That fundamental right is the right to choose whom we want to publicise through our group. You will only end up choosing mutually hostile groups because its the hostile groups which have the maximum number of common members between them. Matter in fact that very reason of common members become the reason for hostility.
Hence its my very sincere advise to Yahoo to give sufficent tools in the hands of the owners/moderators to screen out whom they dont want to publicise through their group.
Everybody has friends and also enemies. AND NO ONE IS SO GOOD THAT THEY WILL PUBLICIZE THEIR ENEMY AND ALSO NO ONE IS SO BAD THEY WILL PUBLICIZE THAT VERY ENEMY WHO HAS TRIED TO HURT THEIR GROUPS’ INTRESTS.
I am afraid if Yahoo didnt give these tools to edit whom the owner/moderator wants to publicize, then some people may even shift their group to other services. THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT NOBODY WOULD LIKE TO PUBLICISE HIS ENEMY. ITS THE ENEMY GROUPS WHO HAVE THE MAXIMUM NUMBER OF COMMON MEMBERS. HENCE YAHOO SHOULD ADD THIS FEATURE BUT SHOULD ALSO GIVE CONTROLS TO EDIT IT AS PER THE WISHES OF THE OWNER. YAHOO SHOULD UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES FORCE A GROUP OWNER TO PUBLICIZE HIS RIVAL. THE PRESENT PROPOSAL IS DOING EXACTLY THAT.
As a well wisher of Yahoo, I will sincerely request them to provide control tools in the hands of the group owners/moderators also, along with this feature.
Luv & Regards
Rajesh Kainth
Owner Dil Se Desi Group
Amit Kumar said,
March 15, 2008 @ 8:31 pm
Being moderator of one group I surely would want control on what other group is being advertised on my group page. I understand Yahoo is the host but
If I run a entertainment group for all ages and lets say another adult group is having more members sharing my group I would surely would not want that adult group being advertised in my group page.
We should have a choice. of moderating even the groups which match us.
Stephen said,
March 15, 2008 @ 8:34 pm
I can not express exactly how bad this feature has messed up things. This is something that belongs on a web page if at all. I just had someone post a 100 word story to my group. The story took up barely one screen full in traditional view (which as a story group is our primary view) then a page and a half of recommendations, none of which were actually related. Followed by a page of the standard setting reminders (which I put up with) And that’s before I even get to the fact that it’s going to the spam folders because of how big the footer is.
To make matters worse, it began with a series of === instead of the usual — which results in the software we use to piece multi-part stories together for the archive including all of these recommendations together until someone can fix the software … probably about a 5 man hour time, as usually something else will break up in the process.
Quite frankly this change should have been backed out about the time the original poster Jami Heldt, Groups Community Manager said that there would be an update next week on the feature. This kind of thing should not hold over a weekend.
This ill considered idea should be terminated, now, and never return in the e-mails. You’re cluttering them up, ruining your service and alienating your communities.
Shalf said,
March 15, 2008 @ 8:35 pm
Maybe there should be heuristics to limit how often a particular group is recommended in another.
For example, members in groups with a large percentage of members in common probably don’t need cross-recommendations: it is probable that they know about the other group already. As an example consider groups that are private to the moderators of another group: one is a subset of the other. It is pointless to refer the mods to their main group, and vice-versa.
Or, maybe mods should be excluded from the computation of members in common for the above reason, and because mods may be atypical of the membership for other reasons.
Perhaps group B shouldn’t be recommended in group A too often. How often may depend on the amount of traffic in group A, or the number of groups eligible to be recommended to group A. Maybe once a day, or week, or month, or some other arbitrary interval is enough to inform.
Amit Kumar said,
March 15, 2008 @ 8:38 pm
There may be other constraints as i mentioned above. Hope there is a approve button for what ever groups are to be advertised and the owner moderator can pick from that group or not pick any at all
Donna said,
March 15, 2008 @ 9:07 pm
I am in complete disagreement with this idea. For one thing, you’re undermining the rules that are set up on my group (and I’m sure many others). I/we do not allow advertising of any other groups (regardless of topic) on our lists. Now, without permission, you’re doing what my members are not allowed to do. Many list owners and moderators work hard to build their groups and certainly don’t wish to advertise other groups.
In addition to the main list that I manage, our group has over a dozen subsidiary groups that are not listed in the directory. We don’t want them listed because of the specialized nature of those groups. In order to be a member of a sub-group, you must first be a member of the main group.
If you insist on this “feature”, at least give the list owners and moderators the ability to turn off the “advertising” that will appear on the list’s messages. You should also allow owners/moderators to “opt out” of having their groups advertised on other lists.
On a personal level, you’re actually going to SPAM me with each email I receive through one of my lists. I’ve set my email to “traditional” so that I don’t get all the unwanted inserts and attachments. All of the additional info inserted at the foot of each message is bad enough. I don’t want “advertising” added to every list message, too. I belong to nearly 100 lists and can’t even imagine how my mail will look if this happens.
Will I be able to report Yahoogroups to Yahoo as a “spammer”?
Phil said,
March 15, 2008 @ 10:30 pm
Just thought ide add a ‘good idea’ comment. I like it and hope it gets implemented soon. Keep the good ideas coming.
RS said,
March 15, 2008 @ 11:01 pm
And another thing I may have not mentioned above either. With this fiasco, don’t you DARE come to us on Monday and say “you’ll like it better when we fix it, just hang on a couple days.” Disable this crapfest IMMEDIATELY and issue us an apology. You were utterly foolish to implement this and then leave us hanging over the weekend.
Learn the lesson of places that don’t understand their users:
Tribe.net was poised to be the next big social networking thang. New concepts, viral buzz, ballooning membership, everything good. Then some greedy corporate types got ahold of it, and changed the look to an eye-destroying red/white motiff, gimped the operation of it, and slapped down the members racier groups, all without running it past the members (well, to be fair they did. The members said they hated it, and it was done anyway–also with no warning). Where is Tribe.net today? Well, they managed to avoid a total loss and kicked out the whole board full of idiots that thought they knew what they were doing. Now the place has two employees, an absentee CEO, and flatlined revenue. Not even a company office. Tribe.net is a server. That’s it. The place is still the best social networking site out there to my taste, and it has a lot of loyal users too, but its momentum is dead, its forward motion seems likely to be gone forever. Stupidity has all but put this once great new thing 6 feet under. Know what the company said when they made those fatal changes? “We think you’ll like it”. When we called BS on that, and told them we were getting eyestrain, they said “you’ll get used to it”. Learn fast, I hear the bells tolling for YG.
Nubia, I share your outrage. Glad to see I’m not the only one so hopping mad about this I can’t stop posting about my anger. This ain’t no “concern” or “question” Jami, this is straight up angry. Don’t respond to us in corpspeak euphamisms, get as real as you can. If YG has been corrupted by orders from the top to gen more page views, we can help you with implementing those ideas in the least painful ways possible, despite the inevitable user anger over more clicks, but you have to let us know what you are being directed towards behind the scenes too so you don’t kill this once great product with knee-jerk features like these. There’s good ways to get that, and lame ways that will drive eyeballs away. We can help, but you need to let us further in. Hurry and make these needed changes in process and communication. There’s a lot of disgust out here. We can put you on track fast, but not without getting fully involved here. Work quick, the good will bucket is a-runnin’ dry…
Sunil Sharma said,
March 16, 2008 @ 12:48 am
This is really a good idea for the members of one group to make familiar with the other groups.. But there are several other ways to do it instead of forcibly carrying ads of the other groups. These ads can be added at the bottom of other common mails instead of group mails.. or these stats can be made available at the group homepage instead of carrying it in every group mail…. Moreove if this all is to be provided at all then group administrators must be given choices to select groups to be advertised and must have an option to strikeout the groups which they dont want to be advertised in their groups..
Take Care
Sunil Sharma
Murray Branch said,
March 16, 2008 @ 1:27 am
i think a group owner / moderator should be able to turn this feature on or off and STILL remain in the diretory so a search can be done
main reason is that it makes every email even longer than it is now and for those of use who choose to recieve indervidual emails this adds a lot specially also people on list were members recieve digest and members dont trim emails it makes them even harder to read
if you do it add a moderator control so a list can still remain in the directory Please
regards
Murray
Nisa said,
March 16, 2008 @ 2:07 am
I noticed something over night. Groups I own/moderate, and even others I’m “just a member” of that had the new feature yesterday, does not have the reccommendations any longer. (as of 6AM Eastern Sunday) Woo-Hoo! Does this mean you are actually listening to us? Or is this just wishful thinking?
Princess Ameera said,
March 16, 2008 @ 4:01 am
NOOOO….! First of all I don’t run my groups in order to win allots Of Members..And I”don’t like new members to join my groups at all,…..In one word..I’will just delete my 2 groups and stay in MSN Where a belong form long time…this is crazy…. I don’t like this idea at all !
Amit said,
March 16, 2008 @ 4:35 am
Please don’t spam us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We must be allowed to turn off this feature.
STOP ……………. IT…………….
STOP ……………. IT…………….
STOP ……………. IT…………….
CYRUS said,
March 16, 2008 @ 4:52 am
THIS IS ABSOLUTELY NONSENSE, STUPIDITY AND OUTRAGE..!!
WHAT YAHOO IS TRYING TO DO?
START FIGHTS AND RIVALRY AMONG GROUP OWNERS ??
MY GROUP – “HAVE-A-HEART” – IS A CLEAN AND CREATIVE GROUP SHARING VARIETY OF CREATIVE MAILS FROM TALENTED MEMBERS.
BUT ITS A SMALL GROUP OF 1000- ODD MEMBERS, AS WE CARE MORE OF QUALITY AND NOT QUANTITY.
AND SUDDENLY I FIND ADVERTISEMENTS FOR LARGE CORRUPT GROUPS IN ALL MY GROUP MAILS..!! WHY SHOULD WE ALLOW SUCH CORRUPT GROUPS BE RECCOMENDED IN MY CRERATIVE GROUP ??.
AND THE LARGE AMOUNT OF MAIL IN EVERY GROUP, THE MEMBER MAY JOIN THE LARGE GROUP AND LEAVE THE SMALL GROUP TO KEEP THEIR INBOX FROM OVERFLOWING.
THUS YAHOO WANTS ALL SMALL CREATIVE GROUPS TO SUFFER IN FAVOUR OF LARGE CURRUPT GROUPS.
IF YAHHO REALLY MEAN GOOD FOR SMALLER GROUPS, LET THEM ADVERTISE FOR THE SMALLER CREATIVE GROUPS IN THE LARGER GROUPS AND NOT THE OTHER WAY ROUND AS THEY ARE DOING NOW.
AND GIVE US CHOICE TO TURN OFF THIS FEATURE, WITHOUT BEING UNLISTED FROM YAHOO-GROUPS.
HOPE THE BETTER SENSE WILL PREVAIL IN YAHOO GROUPS.
—CYRUS—
OWNER/MODERATOR ( HAVE-A-HEART )
Tricia J. said,
March 16, 2008 @ 5:21 am
A suggestion to YahooGroups. Whenever you come up with a bright idea like this, if you MUST implement it without getting feedback, FIRST notify all list moderators and allow them to OPT IN to the feature if they want it, NOT foist it on them and then make them opt out (a favored technique of spammers, by the way, spamming you and then telling you you’ll need to opt out). That way, you’ll run much less risk of running off the very people you need to run the lists of people whose eyeballs you need to sell the advertising.
JoyceR said,
March 16, 2008 @ 5:30 am
My group is ALREADY unlisted , yet my members are seeing recommendations for other groups in their email and they are asking me about these groups. So I am confused. Why would you give recommendations to a group which is unlisted in your directory? This makes me wonder if my group is really unlisted. What gives?
Thanks
Nisa said,
March 16, 2008 @ 6:29 am
It was too good to be true. The “reccommendations” are back.
Gayle said,
March 16, 2008 @ 6:53 am
I am on several adult sites with an over 18 requirement. How can Yahoo guarantee that my children and grandchildren can’t get spammed with adult sites while on my computer? I think this a very bad idea with potential problems that may not have been forseen!
CYRUS said,
March 16, 2008 @ 6:53 am
STOP THIS NO-GOOD EXPERIMENT IMMEDIATELY…!!!!!
IT IS CAUSING IMMENSE DAMAGE TO THE SMALL CREATIVE GROUPS LIKE OURS, BY FORCIBLY ALLOWING ADVERTISEMENTS/RECCOMENDATION FOR UNWANTED GROUPS.
AND YAHOO GROUPS ADMINISTRATION WILL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL THE DAMAGE BEING DONE BY THIS ILL-CONCIEVED IDEA.
WHY ONLY LARGER GROUPS ARE FAVOURED AND RECCOMENDED ? WHY NOT THE SMALLER GROUPS?
LET THE GROUP OWNER/MODERATORS DECIDE WHICH GROUP TO RECCOMEND. YAHOO CAN NOT IMPOSE ON THEM FORCIBLY TO ADVERTISE AND RECCOMEND THE UNWANTED AND RIVAL GROUPS.
THE EARLIEST THEY STOP THIS EXPERIMENT, BETTER IT WILL BE FOR YAHOO GROUPS IN GENERAL.
—CYRUS—
OldOnliner said,
March 16, 2008 @ 7:05 am
Where is the management of Yahoo Groups development going here?
With all the many things that could be done to improve groups and expand the features offered, how is it possible that this silly attempt at advertising groups got implemented first?
Excuse me, but what kind of management is going on at Yahoo Groups? Are you just flailing around, throwing darts at the brainstorming board? Where’s the direction? What kind of tactical or strategic initiative are you trying to address with this utterly unnecessary, unwanted, and even questionable feature?
Since you can’t reliably control the content in these recommendation listings, you’re setting yourself up top fail, and fail badly; all the while pissing off a lot of people in the process.
Shamefully misguided.
Again: Where’s management?
Ellen Harpin said,
March 16, 2008 @ 7:23 am
This “improvement” is deplorable. We work very hard to keep our group focused and spend a lot of time trying to safe-guard the group from spammers. On a daily basis, we get spam requests to join the group. This would increase that to the point that we’d be doing nothing but screening for spammers. Please do not implement this where list owners do not want it. There should be a way to opt out without having to remove the group from the Yahoogroups directory. Yahoogroups works just fine now; please don’t change that.
Ginger said,
March 16, 2008 @ 7:39 am
When introducing new features that are significantly different I would prefer to be able to “Opt in” rather than having to “opt out”. Especially when the changes are in conflict with the groups intentions. It would be best to poll for the need of these features BEFORE implementing them (and then getting lots of negative feedback). Why waste time implementing “features” that are not wanted by the majority of the end-users?
Nedda said,
March 16, 2008 @ 8:10 am
Please stop with the recommendations… it is an invasion of privacy to know that members are members of other similar groups… it is none of our business – if we wanted to find other like or similar groups we could do a search.
Leave well enough alone and leave this feature off the emails. Plus it makes reading from digest more difficult than it already is.
Ryan James said,
March 16, 2008 @ 8:23 am
All of my groups are moderated and I have to approve of any membership. This has cut spamming down to zero. Yes, it is a bit more work for me, but that is the responsibility you take with running a group.
I think the idea is a great one. It give me and my members options of finding groups that are not always easy to find when you do a group search. Personally, I have found the group search to be the least positive thing to say about Yahoo Groups.
It seems to me that some may be concerned that their members may find other groups that they would like to join and leave their current group in the meanwhile. Competition is a good thing. If I find a group better than mine, I would join it too and think about whether or not my group has a purpose if I cannot measure up.
Barbara Collins said,
March 16, 2008 @ 8:31 am
I think this idea is terrble — someone said “deplorable” and I agree. Mine is a small group of 160 members and I keep it small becuase I don’t want thousands of memebrs. For you to ADVERTISE and that is what you are doing, groups that other members belong to is an invasion of their privacy and spamming as I look at it. Particularly since I had trouble with one of the groups you are now saying is “Related” to mine. I don’t want this, I don’t like it, and I am AMAZED that you don’t have a way for owners to OPT OUT — I surely would. This detracts from my list, confuses the members (wondering if I did this), etc. Maybe the gorups YOU Are recokmending are NOT good groups — this is what is sad. YOU could put ANYTHING there. I could go on and on, but it is a BAD feature. You should have asked group owners first — this really is upsetting.
Javka said,
March 16, 2008 @ 8:41 am
If this goes thru its going to force people to look elsewhere…….Google here we come!
Marilyn said,
March 16, 2008 @ 8:43 am
This is AWFUL !!
I have worked hard to build this group… and I do not want copy cats to have their groups advertised on my group’s emails!
IF you want to offer this…then give us an option to turn it OFF !!
Marilyn
CheapcycleLouisville
Cheapcycle Groups
Cheapcycle Mod Squad
Kat said,
March 16, 2008 @ 8:49 am
The idea is good but how the groups that are chosen to be advertised in footer of the mails sent to my groups is bad.
I have copyright compliant groups and why on earth would I want to advertise non copyright compliant groups in my groups? Or, why on earth would I think a food group is the group to advertise in my groups? The groups that have been suggested as having something in common with my groups are absolutely NOT groups I would want to advertise! Food is so NOT related to the themes of my groups and non copyright groups are so NOT related to the themes of my groups either.
But I like the idea of this and I think it is a good one BUT the group owner needs to be the one who chooses what groups are advertised and the owner also has to have the choice to NOT advertise any groups.
There are groups I would love to have in the footer instead of the ones that Yahoo for some strange reasons thinks should be there.
I trust staff from yahoo reads these comments and I hope it isn’t to difficult to change the features to make this more adaptable for the groups… I hate spam and as it is now, my copyright compliant groups are being spammed with links to non related and non copyright compliant groups.
Boo said,
March 16, 2008 @ 8:55 am
Because of these “recommendations” a couple of my groups are now ‘recommending’ another group that we would NEVER recommend because we found the owner to be a troll.
Boo
Cheryl said,
March 16, 2008 @ 8:56 am
I’m not much fussed on having groups recommended by Yahoo. With all due respect, they don’t know me and they don’t know much about the groups they’d be recommending. If they’re not going to tailor the groups to *my* considerations, then they’re only spamming me with what *they think* I want.
At the very least, have an opt-in feature, rather than an opt-out one.
Karen said,
March 16, 2008 @ 8:59 am
I absolutely do not want additional advertising in any emails posted to the group or on the group. I am not opposed to properly promoting groups with similar missions or goal, but want to make the decision for my group members or at least have the opportunity to screen any group claiming to be within the same field.
This practice is similar to spamming, in my opinion, in that groups can come from anywhere. Where there are poorly maintained groups, or groups that claim to be in the same realm as they are advertising, they could very well be spoofing for the opportunity be one of the Yahoo promoted groups within our membership. We prefer to quality control on our own and don’t need additional help in doing so.
And if you are going to force this on us, please give us the opportunity to turn it OFF. That would only be fair practice on Yahoo’s part.
Gloria said,
March 16, 2008 @ 9:04 am
I run a Yahoo group and belong to several others… all those groups are kept small with all requests screened in order to avoid spammers, etc. We as List Owners should at least have the OPTION of using this service… or NOT! in a minimum abount of words..
I DON’T WANT IT! Thank you.
LCCW said,
March 16, 2008 @ 9:11 am
I do not agree with this type of spam. My team and I have worked very hard at making our group grow and become the success it is. If Yahoo does not give us the turn off option then I will have to seriously look at other places to take my group. I will not put up with spamming. This is really the WORST idea Yahoo has come up with.
LCCW
Andrea said,
March 16, 2008 @ 9:30 am
Please do not share the names of the groups I am on. First off, many of them are closed and have waiting lists. Secondly, I would much prefer to do my own surfing rather than have your organization suggest things for me.
Cheryl said,
March 16, 2008 @ 9:31 am
I’m concerned about the privacy issue. We have a dog group. At the bottom of one of the emails it states how many of our members belong to a personality disorder group. Obviously it doesn’t say who – but still, if people join a group regarding mental health or other ‘private’ health issues – maybe they don’t want it advertised. Now anyone on our group who paid attention to that garbage at the bottom will be looking at every email wondering if that person has a personality problem etc.
Instead of trying things out on us – why not do a survey of what yahoo group owners would like? My dog groups love the photo and file pages. My photo group does monthly photo contests with the poll option. My neighborhood group actually has a separate home page from the yahoo group because yahoo groups doesn’t have the capability for everything we want.
teacherstork said,
March 16, 2008 @ 9:32 am
Please do not do this with any of my groups. I am the administrator of three groups and DO NOT want to recommend any of my groups to anyone other than to the members. Spam is not allowed, as these are groups for students in school.
Andy Swarbrick said,
March 16, 2008 @ 9:34 am
Let us suppose we have two groups. One has, say 10,000 members and the other has just 100 members. Also of the 100 group, 90 of them are in the other 10k group.
So 90% of the tiny group are “using” the huge group, so recommendation (on the Yahoo scale) would seem a sensible thing to promote.
However in the other group we are talking about 90 out of 10k people. That is just 0.01%, if my Maths is correct. So in this instance recommendation would seem stupid.
If this bald recommendation logic is followed then, all other things being equal, the big groups will get bigger and the small groups will go to the wall.
May I ask, Yahoo, is that do you want to destroy the small groups?
Nancy J said,
March 16, 2008 @ 10:09 am
I hate the idea. Part of the reason my group started was because we were sick of the flame fest in other groups of a similar interest. I keep my group lean and mean, allowing no advertising or any kind (including other groups), with info about my group spread close friend to close friend. I’m not looking to have hundreds or thousands of members.
I am careful about who I approve also. I keep info on my group visible only to members (not passersby). I don’t want to advertise other groups or have my group advertised in another group. There are more pressing issues for Yahoo than going forward with this TERRIBLE idea.
Louise Cole said,
March 16, 2008 @ 10:10 am
I barely have time to read the mail from the groups I have already joined. I have no interest in having advertisements from other groups. If I want to join another group I know how to search for one. There is so much spam I would not like to invite more of it. I am opposed to this change.
David said,
March 16, 2008 @ 10:12 am
This really is so utterly appalling that I would not have thought such a crazy idea could get this far.
Listowners should be given complete freedom on how they run their groups subject only to law and Yahoo TOS. That includes freedom to disallow promotion of other groups on posts by Yahoo in the same way as by their own members. Groups promoted by Yahoo could be hostile and include troublemakers who have left the group and wish it harm. Members could be lost as they might unsubscribe in favour of another publicised group. Listowners should have the right to prevent their group being publicised elsewhere entirely at their discretion. Personally I know of groups whose members I do not want.
The effort should instead have been devoted to improving the directory (searchability etc) and I would like to see the old Onelist? ‘new groups today’ feature come back.
Paul Jones said,
March 16, 2008 @ 10:28 am
Thanks for thinking about me and my group. Now how do I turn this “feature” off?
Janet Blakeley said,
March 16, 2008 @ 10:35 am
Please give us the option of turning this feature OFF.
I agree it clutters the mails.
I already have links to recommended groups I have carefully screened in the footers of our mails. I do NOT want Yahoo to decide which groups our members should be exposed to. Those which are not included in the footers are NOT THERE for good reasons.
And, yes, if the Yahoo group search function worked better there would be no need for this.
Janet
Donna Howell said,
March 16, 2008 @ 10:40 am
I want to turn mine off. I like to pick my own groups, It is not hard to do. I do not want my name sent around and I do not need the unwanted mail.
Donna
Fran said,
March 16, 2008 @ 10:40 am
I really dislike the idea. The sidebar is sooo crowded already, and I don’t want any recommendations from Yahoo on groups to join. I get enough from my friends and members of groups that I am a member of–far more than i can deal with!!!
J said,
March 16, 2008 @ 11:07 am
This is just wrong! I work very hard to keep my group members from receiving SPAM and unwanted e-mails just because they are members of my group. I do not allow any advertising on my group site, and I prefer that it stays that way. If yahoo thinks this is such a great new feature, then make it an option for group owners to decide as to whether they do or don’t want it applied to their group. Not only do I not want groups recommended to my group members, my groups are local, so I wouldn’t want them recommended to someone in another state, or country, either. This whole thing really makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever. Did anyone at Yahoo! think about polling group owners BEFORE inforcing this less-than-intelligent “new feature” on us?
Karen said,
March 16, 2008 @ 11:14 am
1) Group owners do not wish to publicize the owners of other groups who are often seen as competition and sometimes even as enemies. That’s the nature of how many groups are created…one leave out of disgust, or is thrown out, to create a group that is competition.
2) Ads for other groups are considered spam and most group owners have rules against spam. (I loved Donna’s comment: “Will I be able to report Yahoogroups to Yahoo as a “spammer”?”)
3) Members can easily find and usually know about these competition groups. That’s why so many belong to them.
It’s better to teach people how to search for groups (most do know how!) than to inflict this on groups and forcing them to de-list themselves. Think about it–if their only solution against this is to remove their groups from the directory, then fewer will be joining groups and you’ve managed to do the total opposite of what you wanted to do in the first place.
Sofi said,
March 16, 2008 @ 11:31 am
This is ABSOLUTELY NOT a good idea!
Please remove it until you have read the hundreds of voices outlining why it’s a bad, bad thing.
- It violates privacy (it may even violate yahoo’s own TOS!) by displaying other groups that members belong to, when they had an expectation of privacy. What if my spirituality-focused group only has 67 members, and we find out that 24 of them belong to porn groups?
- it hurts both small and large groups — small groups’ problems are outlined above. Large groups will be innundated with tons of irrelevant information. Say my group has 9,000 members. Overlaps will in no way be focused enough to be of any use — and the amount of irrelevant “recommendations” will be huge.
- The “overlap” idea is not a logical basis. Yahoo groups are topic-based. Keep it that way, and don’t mess with us, please. There is no one-size-fits-all version of it that will work without causing heaps of trouble.
- There is already way too much clutter. A large portion of the internet world only has the option of dial-up (and no upgrade available). They already have a terrible time accessing groups affordably.
- No such feature should be opt-OUT. It shouldn’t be there at all, but must be opt-IN if you do it anyway. And directory listing should not be removed if a group does not opt in.
Horrible bad idea. Please, don’t don’t don’t do it.
Stop now and remove it, because you are seeing now “what the worst that can happen” is!
Seems like nobody did that before clicking “go” on this ill-conceived “improvement.”
You should have asked us first. You should have noticed that groups didn’t want grouply, and now you are doing the same thing. You should please listen — so many owners and moderators are asking you to reconsider.
Groups are not social networks. We don’t want to be social networks.
Eve said,
March 16, 2008 @ 11:41 am
I hate this idea. There’s no point. Anyone wanting to look up groups they might be interested in already can by searching Yahoo Groups. Also, there already is TOO much stuff added to each email that comes through a Yahoo Group, especially for those people who choose to recieve messages Full Featured (I really hate that option). Now you want to add MORE stuff?
I don’t understand why, but already many messages don’t wrap correctly, even if the person is using a Yahoo account. The first line of someone’s message will be fine, but the second line will only contain one or two words, the third line is fine, but the forth line only has one or two words. It’s already annoying. Now you are going to offset messages even more. Don’t do it, PLEASE.
Dolo said,
March 16, 2008 @ 11:56 am
I really dont like this idea. Couldnt you just try and find a better way of making our groups visible? I think we’d all prefer to have another option in this matter other than having to unlist our groups.
Laura said,
March 16, 2008 @ 11:58 am
Are you kidding me? I would hope yahoogroups would be SMART enough to allow this to be a choice for group owners to use or NOT USE.
Seriously, yahoogroups really needs to get input from group owners before they make this a mandatory feature that you cannot turn off, otherwise you will turn OFF group owners to having another crappy feature shoved down our throats.
Google groups looks better and better every damn day
Les said,
March 16, 2008 @ 12:02 pm
I think this is a bad idea – messages are already overly cluttered by the extra thnigs yahoo adds, even more so in the new ‘fully featured’ version.
I agree with the many comments that improving the current search engine for people to find groups would be a far better use of your time and resources.
If you insist on moving forward with this idea, then make it so that each user must OPT-IN to receive these notices or at the very least allows users to Opt Out of getting them (although that this significantly more annoying) and certainly allow group owners/moderators to disable these notices from appearing for their groups as a whole.
I appreciate the yahoo mail and group system, it is a a great service, but it is becoming more and more just an advertising system than a user community and it makes me seriously consider leaving altogether.
Anne said,
March 16, 2008 @ 12:03 pm
PLEASE include a way to opt out of this !!!
In theory it’s a good idea; however I can see where it could be construed as an invasion of privacy, and could also cause members to become upset.
Barbara Payne said,
March 16, 2008 @ 12:13 pm
My first reaction was: Hurray!! But I agree with the idea that there should be some controls. And yes, if someone in my group happens to belong to another group that has a diametrically opposed philosophy, there should be some protection. Can’t we make this a function that depends on the person’s search rather than automatically spitting things out?
Maybe using keywords, tags would work better than common memberships.
Thanks for thinking creatively. There’s still a lot of room for improvement on the web.
Marie said,
March 16, 2008 @ 12:40 pm
There are several of us that are discussing off line and off this board how we can stop this on our posts, trying this and that. So far a footer doesn’t work, neither does one of those little gif blinkies at the bottom of your post like the Stationery people use at times. So don’t bother trying those. If we come up with something we’ll post it here, but don’t hold your breath. These links go on when the post goes out which means we can’t even EDIT them out.
I do know this – if a certain group turns up on my list because several of my people do belong to it I am going to scorch Yahoo’s ears here on this talk area and I am going to name names – , because that particular group is definately NOT PG or PG-13 yet it is a picture group, but most of the pictures I’d classify as Adult content material, yet they don’t have to be over 18 to join – not a good idea at all.
Yahoo needs to take another longer and better look at this FUBAR and correct the links that do not belong – just because 5 people belong to the same group that belong to mine is no reason to stick that link on my e-mail, I am sure they’ve advised their friends that they are members and asked them to take a look and or join – Yahoo doesn’t have to HELP us out. We are mostly adults and we do think for ourselves at times believe it or not Yahoo.
We also have different interests that do not dovetail with each other and those interests should not be lumped together just because a few members are on the same groups – stupid idea.
FIX THE SEARCH ENGINE INSTEAD YAHOO – Give us more catagories to advertise in – let us advertise in more then one at a time (a limit of 5 perhaps) if warranted, thus making it easier for our members and those new and old people looking to find a certain area(s) to add to their group membership to do so.
Fix your first FUBAR, the Search Engine, before yiou start messing around with the groups themselves. We owners and mods are very capable of messing our own groups up all by ourselves, we don’t need help, thank you very much.
Better yet if you don’t have anything better to do then this take a vacation and leave our groups alone. Whatever member(s) suggeested this should be strangled they did not know what they were asking for and what a mess it would be. I think I’ll ask my members to ask me before they suggest anything to Yahoo, that way I can be sure it’s not going to totally obliterate the system.
Members who are ot owners or mods somewhere don’t know what Owners and Mods have to do to keep sites going, they think we sit here for 3 minutes and play and send out stuff then we are free for the day – LOL – we don’t do that, we have a whole lot of responsibility we have to take care of, the posts are the least at times; so when they suggest something to Yahoo directly they don’t realize they could be causing us more work, frustration, anger, and themselves a mess on their e-mail or on the site when they come to visit.
When that happens they yelp at us, and we can’t do a thing about it if Yahoo has done it for us – if we did it, yep we can undo it, but not when Yahoo “helps us out”.
Marie
Wayney said,
March 16, 2008 @ 12:41 pm
I think this is wrong. I do not allow members of my groups to post links to other groups because I feel it is spam. I’m not against members of my groups belonging to multiple groups with the same focus. I belong to groups that have the same focus as ones I own. But, I do NOT advertise my group on other groups unless it is allowed and even then I generally don’t do so beyond either a link in my signature line or just in conversation. As in, “I own a group [no name mentioned] and this is what we do…” or something similar. And then if asked about it, I’ll share the name etc if it is permissible. But, I do not like to be guilty of forcing my group on others. I’m in the directory if people search to find me. I do NOT feel it is ok to poach on other groups for members. If that keeps my membership down, then so be it. If I have that type of consideration for other group owners I expect the same consideration from them. But, Yahoo is yet again taking from group owners how they want to promote their groups.
As it is, if I don’t want my group advertised I can simply remove myself from the directory. But that does NOT stop Yahoo from attaching the spam to my groups as I understand it. What good is that?
I opt-ed out of Grouply because I do not like being forced into something. I don’t appreciate Yahoo doing this either. I’ll explore other options if this does not stop. I don’t need help from an outside influence in picking groups. If I want to find new groups that I am interested in, I’ll search for them. Using the oh so wonderful groups search feature. I am a competent adult and can manage to find my way around despite the problems of the search.
Emails are long enough as it is due to the advertising, the trailers Yahoo adds and the info each group owner adds to the bottom of each email. I have enough complaints about members not cutting trailers when they respond as it is. I don’t need Yahoo adding more “stuff” and making that worse. Someone else mentioned our overseas members who pay by the byte for mail downloading. This will just upset them. Oh sure they can read messages on the group but then they’re paying higher fees to be online. So it’s a no win situation for them.
I’m hoping Yahoo rethinks this. I want to shut it off. In fact, I’d rather not be exposed to it unless I asked to. I shouldn’t need to go opt-out. It should be opt-in. But, yet again, some corporation thinks they can read the minds of their users. Were any group owners even asked about this before it was enabled? I think not. Maybe I am wrong. But it seems like, from reading comments here, that people are against this.
gar said,
March 16, 2008 @ 12:45 pm
I belong to a lot of groups. I sure don’t want this. It just ads junk to an already over crowded email message. I much prefer to chose my own groups and not those common to other members of groups I belong to. It’s not a useful tool. I think folks can find groups on their own. If not then they can ask someone how to do it. Not force the rest of us to put up with extra junk in our messages because they don’t know how.
Maybe a better option is this. Do it on the search page for the person trying to search for a group.
Jo said,
March 16, 2008 @ 12:49 pm
I DO NOT want my group mail cluttered up any more than it already is. If I want more groups in my area of interest, I will search for them. I do not want advertisements OF ANY SORT on my e-mails, thank you very much. You are seriously intruding where you do not need to go. This is the equivalent of SPAM and you know how people feel about that!
This is a very bad idea.
Marie said,
March 16, 2008 @ 12:50 pm
To Eve and anyone else that has people on FULLY FEATURED (that was the OLD way) – tell them to switch to TRADITIONAL and stay there. That will put the group lists at the bottom of the page and not along the side, thus preventing them from interfering with text or content of the post. I go through my list every so often and change people over, then I send out a cover note that explains this. Right now I have about 5 people that have not gotten the message yet – I am waiting for them to yelp about this side bar covering up a picture or text and making it hard to read then I am going to respond with “Darlin’ as I have advised the group before, set your mail to Traditional and it won’t happen the junk will be at the bottom”.
Marie
Larry said,
March 16, 2008 @ 12:54 pm
I sincerely hope this is just a sick “April Fool’s” joke. Why would you use one group to advertise other groups? That’s what Search is for.
People don’t join one group to find out what other groups are available.
May I remind you of this part of the Yahoo! TOS:
You understand that all information, data, text, software, music, sound, photographs, graphics, video, messages, tags, or other materials (”Content”), whether publicly posted or privately transmitted, are the sole responsibility of the person from whom such Content originated. This means that you, and not Yahoo!, are entirely responsible for all Content that you upload, post, email, transmit or otherwise make available via the Service. Yahoo! does not control the Content posted via the Service and, as such, does not guarantee the accuracy, integrity or quality of such Content. You understand that by using the Service, you may be exposed to Content that is offensive, indecent or objectionable. Under no circumstances will Yahoo! be liable in any way for any Content, including, but not limited to, any errors or omissions in any Content, or any loss or damage of any kind incurred as a result of the use of any Content posted, emailed, transmitted or otherwise made available via the Service.
***and***
You agree to not use the Service to: upload, post, email, transmit or otherwise make available any unsolicited or unauthorized advertising, promotional materials, “junk mail,” “spam,” “chain letters,” “pyramid schemes,” or any other form of SOLICITATION, except in those areas (such as shopping) that are designated for such purpose (please read our complete Spam Policy);
And if I am responsible for said content, then it is up to me whether advertising of other groups, in the form of “tags”, will be used. Correct? Then I should have the right to opt-in to said ’service’… NOT opt-out.
Because Group Owners are ultimately held responsible for what goes on in a group, then Yahoo! should be listening to the Group Owners. Period.
Thank you for allowing me to have my say in this matter.
David said,
March 16, 2008 @ 1:02 pm
It’s already bad enough that spammers join my group to specifically send invites to my list members and tap my resources. Now they have free access to my group through this new recommendation program.
This is a terrible idea! We should have more say in decisions that so broadly affect our hard work.
David said,
March 16, 2008 @ 1:10 pm
Further, it’s not a matter of not wanting my group recommended. I don’t want “other” groups recommended on MY list. That’s spam!
I urge you to remove this feature immediately until the entire matter can be properly sorted out.
Bev said,
March 16, 2008 @ 1:18 pm
Please, PLEASE do NOT institute this new “feature.” I am not in the least interested in even more SPAM. It matters not to me whether the SPAM is offered by Yahoo, YahooGroups, or anyone else! If/when I am interested in any other groups, the SEARCH feature works just fine (like it always has). If folks are finding it too difficult to use, perhaps they would have difficulty with multiple groups.
Aloha, Bev
Kim said,
March 16, 2008 @ 1:26 pm
1) I have found and experienced, that group owners do not want you to recommend other groups, wether they are yahoo message boards of other boards. They are seen as competition. for new memebers, or older members leave to start thier own group.
2) Spam! I don’t want to make it easier for scammers/spammers to glean info for their own agenda.
The Groups I belong to and moderate, don’t allow postings of links. And it should be left that way. I do not want other groups recommended to our group members. Two of my groups are local, and the cites are spelled out, about who can belong/post. We still have problems keeping people out. They fib on thier zip codes, some are even from out of county and state.
Don’t you think people know how to “search” for yahoo groups that interest them? I know that is how i have found the various groups i belong to.
PAJeff said,
March 16, 2008 @ 1:37 pm
Bad idea. Bad, bad idea. Just because I am in several groups does not mean that I want the group members to overlap. Implementing this feature will undermine privacy. Yahoo is bad enough about privacy already, this will make it worse.
I don’t care to join any more groups. If I did, I would search for them and join. I am not interested in seeing other groups listed because a computer program decided to tell me about them.
What’s going to happen with Daily Digests? Will we get multiple listings? How many times are you going to tell me about the same groups that I want to ignore?
Beverly said,
March 16, 2008 @ 1:45 pm
This is a bad idea, very bad idea. It’s spam. It’s intrusive. It’s confusing. Improve your group search engine.
Lenny Tatara said,
March 16, 2008 @ 1:54 pm
Having a list of common groups sounds like a great idea. At my art group I encourage members to tell us about their websites and their Yahoo! Groups if they have one. Getting new members can be hard for a new group so I encourage members to promote their group. I think of Yahoo! Groups as a big family and we should get to know each other.
I have read many of the posts and it looks like many owners are afraid that their members will see another group and leave their group. If you lose members that means only one thing and that is you have failed to maintain your group and that your members will go to another group that has something to offer that your group lacked.
I don’t think of this new idea as spam but as an avenue to reach out to other groups and share common interests. I feel we will all benefit from having a relevant groups list.
One thing that Yahoo! might want to think of is having a button on the home page of a group that the members could click on to see other groups that are similar to the group that they are currently at.
Lenny “photocatcher” Tatara
Jefferson Bales said,
March 16, 2008 @ 1:59 pm
I do not want to be invited to join any other groups. I agree with Melissa and Donna and whomever else said that they look for themselves at the Yahoo! groups to join and join those that appeal to them.
In the past, I’ve received multiple invitations to join groups that do not interest me. I have enough trouble keeping spammers out of my groups as it is. All this new “invitation feature” will do is attract more spammers and reveal my email address to spammers, resulting my Yahoo! inbox being overfilled and the Messages in my groups being inundated with links that if clicked will put bots on my PC, thereby ruining it.
If Yahoo! implements this “quick-invitation” scheme, I may just leave the site altogether and hope that Google acquires it. I’m sure Google will have much better ideas than this.
Thank you for the warning,
-
tutorjb1
Marie said,
March 16, 2008 @ 2:04 pm
LISSEN UP YAHOO
To date from the 13th through today as of this post, we have had 224 Owners and Mods weigh in on this topic – give or take a couple I may have missed as I counted only new names and some were quite close to ones I’d written down, – 98.9.% are negative, opposed, don’t want it, are saying NO. 1% is positive or were at first; .1% is waiting to see.
Does that tell you something YAHOO, We do not want this new hair brained feature, nor do we want further “testing”, I know from experience when I read ‘Testing” it means “Implimented for ever”.
The administrator said on March 14th that they were TESTING it, they were reading our comments and suggestions – Okaayyy – well I would think by reading these comments and suggestings for 3 days you would understand that we want the testing stopped, not implimented. We don’t want this junk, and we want it ended today
————————————
MY MEMBERS ARE SAYING:
I’ve had reports from my members; yes I actually asked them to report back on their feelings. The unanmous vote was GET RID OF IT. It is annoying, there is enough junk on the e-mail already; they don’t check the links; they know how to use the search engine and don’t need Yahoo telling them where to go for more groups they are very capable of finding on their own. If they want a new group they would not want one that is another one like they already have, they would look for one that is different yet is of an interest to them.
They would like the search engine worked on, redesigned, made easier to find items, more options and areas for groups to put their names and to allow the name to be in more then one place that it applies too. so that no matter what you type in it comes up. Someone mentioned viruses, they know our site is clean, but are the others??? One mentioned Spam sliding through. Another mentioned they found a few of the links front page uninformative, and downright stupid or offensive. Another said sexy posed, half dressed ladies that want to be friends did not turn them on at all.
Get the message Yahoo – STOP. NOW.
Marie.
Nancy said,
March 16, 2008 @ 2:15 pm
I don’t want to be invited to join other groups. I am happy with the ones I am in; if I want to find other groups, I can look for them myself. And I don’t need any more SPAM than I already get. Additional spam is not needed! They don’t need to have my address!
Martha said,
March 16, 2008 @ 2:27 pm
I hate this! My members hate this.
Pllllllease get rid of it. It’s bad enough you have ads.
beth bartson said,
March 16, 2008 @ 2:38 pm
I run several groups and don’t need any more advertisements. I have a small group of just my family for example and it is unlisted.
Yahoo already gives me too much SPAM! Please let us opt out of this as members and as groups!
Thank you,
Beth B
Deborah said,
March 16, 2008 @ 2:45 pm
No thank you. It sounds like a way to get more stuff under which we can get buried. Please make this something you have to request rather than something you get whether you want it or not.
Sandy said,
March 16, 2008 @ 2:50 pm
Not one of your better ideas, Yahoo. My group members want to be in the directory, but do not want members trying to join because they see our group name. Most of my groups are small, personal groups moderated by working folks. The time it would take to find out who potential new members are and if they would fit would cause us to have to close the group and members be by invitation only.
Not a good thing!
Carol Fuller said,
March 16, 2008 @ 2:58 pm
I do not care for this idea at all. I hope we will have a choice.
Suzanne Dye said,
March 16, 2008 @ 3:18 pm
Using my yahoo list to advertise other yahoo lists for my members to join is a violation of the FAQ that our group has established. The way this information shows at the end of the message implies that my yahoo group is endorsing these groups. It also appears to be in violation of your privacy policy. The same is true for your advertising. We often tell member that we did not chose these advertisements and in no way is the group endorsing the seller. Now we must tell them that we did not choose these groups and please do not join them expecting them to meet the same high standards that we work hard for our our yahoo list. Please rethink this “idea”. Somehow, this does not follow any privacy policy – the idea that you tell others how many of these members are on other groups? This does not seem at all private to me. What, may I ask, was the rationale behind this idea? Yahoo has more members ( and complaints) than it can effectively handle. Was this a competetive move on the part of yahoo? I know that Amazon often says people who bought this book also bought these books and gives pictures of the books. Choosing a book is not the same as choosing a social community list. You are dealing with people and not book sales. ( Oh, I do hope you can see the difference.) Thank you for your consideration of these concerns. Suzanne Dye, babysweaters owner
Bruce Wilson said,
March 16, 2008 @ 3:23 pm
Another useless yahoo idea. Already we see useless things link Sponsered Links which have no relevance at all to the groups and the equally useless yahoops questions. Thank heavens we can opt out of the questions thing.
Instead of foisting such nonsense on groups why not have your people develop a better search engine to locate groups? If this is to be implemented make sure the option is there for groups to not participate
Marcie VanDeren said,
March 16, 2008 @ 3:29 pm
This “added feature” is not necessary or desired. Please do not take the YG website in this direction.
Karyne Bailey said,
March 16, 2008 @ 3:34 pm
I am concerned that Yahoo! Groups is going down a slippery slope.
Already we have to “put up” with Sponsor Ads and ads inserted into the Yahoo! Groups.
Now, even though we as the Group Leader must abide by Guideline #6 – You may not use Yahoo! Groups for commercial or advertising purposes, Yahoo! Groups is above their own rules and will advertise other groups through our groups.
When we sign up for Yahoo! we also agree to TOS #6g – upload, post, email, transmit or otherwise make available any unsolicited or unauthorized advertising, yet Yahoo! Groups can choose to do it even though we can’t.
IF this were an optional took, I can see how it might be helpful to those starting mew groups.
HOWEVER, what I can foresee is folks getting upset at something happening inside a group they are in, being asked to leave the group or being banned. Then that person starts their version of the group and Yahoo! Groups will end up promoting the banned person’s group. NOT COOL!!
I can also see places where this service could be abused to confuse individuals into joining groups under false pretenses.
I can also see places where this service could even be abused in terms of harrassing another group, or group owner.
I would strongly RECOMMEND that you make this an OPTIONAL service which an Owner can choose at the same time as they choose whether to be listed in the directory or not.
Some groups are meant for specific folks in specific areas and I fear that this tool could be the start of something that will cause a lot of harm to Owners around North America.
My 5 cents worth.
Polly said,
March 16, 2008 @ 3:41 pm
One of the groups that I am a member of has this “feature” now, and sure enough, one of the links with 10 common members” was to a tattoo and piercing group called “Labret.” I’m not into body decorations of this kind, but what the heck I thought, lets see what Yahoo is reccomending to members of an LDS (Mormon) women’s group.
The description said, “For those who are into body piercing and tattoos.”
I further noticed that you had to join to use any of the features, but all posts were viewable by the public. It was easy to see that this is a list that anyone can join and is not moderated, or if it is, it was set up solely for spam and nothing else. All I saw were pages and pages of spam. Penile erectile and enlargement products, ring tones, replica watches and tons of links to porn sites. 92, just in March alone! A fine site for Mormon women to be joining. NOT!
Personally, the only thing about this new “feature” of Yahoo’s, is that if one of their reccomendations came up showing that I had 10 common members with that site, then I would be trying hard to find out who those ten members were and what they were posting over there. At the very least, once I did find out who they are, I would be putting them on moderation ASAP! To me, membership in that site puts up a big, red, flashing sign – Warning! Spammer!
I spend a good portion of my list ownership managment time screening potential members to my support group and moderating all new members until they have posted at least 10 times. I have four dedicated moderators to help me with this and believe me, it takes a lot of time for the five of us to keep our list s safe haven for our members and free of spammers.
As an aside, like some of the others here, I posted to my largest group what Yahoo was now doing, assured them that our list was no longer listed in the Yahoo Directory and asked them what they thought about this new “feature.” I don’t think anyone here would be surprised to hear that they were overwhelmingly opposed and thanked me profusely for de-listing the group in time.
Yahoo, if you havent’ gotten the message list, hear it again. This is not one of your more brilliant ideas! Get rid of it or at least do an opt-in. Fix the search engine, fix Yahoo Messenger so the links work in Vista, and fix what is broken, not what is already working well.
Claudia Dickson said,
March 16, 2008 @ 3:48 pm
I do not need advertisements to help me navigate the internet. I am fully capable of finding groups without Yahoo’s assistance.
M.B. said,
March 16, 2008 @ 4:50 pm
PLEASE no! Please don’t proceed with this idea!
I moderate a list of 6000+ members from my city in the area of ‘recycling and re-housing usable things’ and from what I gather, if enough of *my members* are also members of ‘other groups’ that are incompatible with *MY* group’s mission, then these other groups will still be advertised on my group?
So for example if 100 of my members happen to be members of a ‘competing’ list that has a different philosophy then THAT group will be advertised to my members?
Or if 50 of ‘my members’ are on a porno or ‘non-family friendly’ list then it will be advertised on *MY* list??
Please don’t do this!!
Please put your energy into having REAL people available to answer complaints instead of sending out ‘canned’ replies.
Please respond and ACT to abuse and harrassment complaints!
PLEASE delete accounts of known spammers and put your energies into cleaning up ‘ownerless’ groups rather than going down this new path!
Please!
Kathleen Gaytan said,
March 16, 2008 @ 4:55 pm
I am a co moderator to a Freecycle group. There is no way I want to recommend other groups. There are rogue groups that are a take off on our group but with a drastic change in rules. I would recommend these groups to any one and I certainly would hate Yahoo to recommend them. These rogue groups said they are like Freecycle and then people find out they are not. People get hurt or mislead. I just so do not like your proposal.
Many disgruntled members or spammers can start their own group even banned members and then our group would advertise them? Oh this would be a big mistake and just bad for our group.
Not to have a choice and to be forced to comply with this “feature” just seems wrong. There are many things that can sabatoge a group. We cannot become unlisted. We are doing a public service and in a “green” field to help our nation. So we may be stuck with this and get spammed or it looks like we are going to advertise a group that does not have the same values.
I am soooo against this. I hope you will reconsider this.
Kathleen Gaytan
mike bader said,
March 16, 2008 @ 5:00 pm
Yech! How can I opt-out of this for all of my groups????
scorpio31f said,
March 16, 2008 @ 5:36 pm
To me, this has both it’s ups and downs but I for one think that if yahoo would remove all the dead groups that has only 1 member or says group no longer exists then the search directory would be much more beneficial. I hope if this does go in effect that it will be optional as to if we want to allow it and also be able to decide if the groups that are selected one’s we’d like to allow.. Like I said before , I see both ups and downs…. Whatever happens, happens I guess!!
Tara said,
March 16, 2008 @ 6:42 pm
Bad, Bad, Bad idea. This is going to make more work on the moderators who already have enough work keeping scammers and spammers out of our groups.
Mary Rowse said,
March 16, 2008 @ 7:13 pm
Please do not implement ideas such as this without first checking with a representative sample of moderators or simply putting the idea out to the blog and asking our opinion. It’s so insulting to be told what Yahoo is doing rather than being asked if we, as moderators, think it’s a good idea. I do not support this idea and am especially annoyed that the recommendations for groups (in the “traditional” email delivery) places these recommended groups ahead of the “tag lines” I use to remind list members of certain rules.
In the future, please do not implement “great ideas” without first running them by the very people who must live with the consequences of them.
RS said,
March 16, 2008 @ 7:46 pm
Well said, Mary. Too bad they did the same thing with the whole Fully Featured format…They’d have seen how no one wanted that either.
jackie said,
March 16, 2008 @ 8:07 pm
Bad bad idea. I could say more but I think everyone who disagrees with this have covered it!
Marc Dorner said,
March 16, 2008 @ 8:10 pm
As an owner and moderator of a number of groups, I feel that this new feature is an invitiation for spammers to clog up the inboxes of all of my members. PLEASE, turn off this feature.
Sharon Partridge said,
March 16, 2008 @ 8:35 pm
Just what I need, more stuff in my email
Please make sure if you offer this that we can opt out.
the pillow said,
March 16, 2008 @ 10:32 pm
Please don’t subject us to seeing the names of other groups. Whatever prompted this bad idea in the first place? Most groups do not want to grow willy-nilly. I would like to be able to search for a topic of interest and find groups I might want to join, but your provision for searching leaves much to be desired and needs to be improved rather than inflicting this action on us. IS THIS A PRECURSOR TO ADDING OUTSIDE ADVERTISING TO OUR POSTS? I recall being asked whether I would be willing to pay to have my group advertised to other groups. Frankly, I’m more likely to pay not to be subjected to your unpopular idea. I truly appreciate your keeping the old format for maps because I am on dialup but also because I prefer the simplicity. I also appreciate being able to maintain my current MyYahoo instead of being forced into the new mode. I just removed everything AOL related from my computer in order to avoid some of THEIR “improvements,” which included imposing AIM on my GoogleTalk! BLECCH
the pillow said,
March 16, 2008 @ 10:45 pm
“Over the years we’ve received a great deal of feedback from Yahoo! Group members, that while they love the groups they are currently members of, it’s often very difficult for them to discover other relevant groups that they might also be interested in joining.”
IT’S OFTEN VERY DIFFICULT FOR THEM TO DISCOVER OTHER RELEVANT GROUPS because Yahoo! has not provided an adequate search tool. Good grief. Don’t you people see the obvious solution? IMPROVE YOUR SEARCH FOR GROUPS.
If you want to do the community some good, get rid of the owner-abandoned groups that have nothing but spam. And how big of a failure has your 360 been? Why are you trying to coerce us into using 360 by not allowing us to post photos to our nice, simple profiles?
SIMPLICITY is the most elegant solution. If we want MySpace, we’ll GO to MySpace. You have not created anything of value with your cluttered, poorly designed 360. You are not proposing anything of value by spamming small groups with ads for larger groups. FIX YOUR GROUP SEARCH ENGINE. Pretty please with sugar on it!
Tony said,
March 16, 2008 @ 11:46 pm
This is by far the worst idea I have seen Yahoo implement since I’ve been moderating a Yahoo group (started when it was egroups!). While my primary group is not in direct “competition” with other groups, it is a medical information group and there are several others that are “related” but are filled with incorrect information, which in turn could cost lives, literally.
It is hard enough to keep out the spambots, but now our group will be flooded with messages where we will need to tell members to be aware of so-and-so group they saw promoted in one of OUR emails. We’ve seen groups pop up that tell people to stop taking their life saving medication and use herbs, which of course they sell. We would NOT EVER recommend one of these groups and do NOT want them listed in one of our emails!
The only people who will like this feature are those who are A) too lazy and cheap to promote their groups through proper and effective channels, and B) those who have no interest in running a quality group, but instead just want a lot of members because they believe it is a popularity contest.
For heaven’s sake, if you must implement this feature, PLEASE give us the option of opting out. We are begging you. This is not myspace, this is not facebook. And the first person that dies because they think some herb pushing group is “related” to ours, their blood is on your hands, not ours. Please do not make us spambomb our own group with warnings about other groups.
ann said,
March 16, 2008 @ 11:54 pm
im hoping that we will have a feature to opt out of this,
im not happy with the idea at all
Nick Skeet said,
March 17, 2008 @ 12:00 am
No,No,No This is forcing spam upon our members, unsolicited, if we can not opt out, I will move group to another host. It is bad enough with the silly USA advertsing we get as it is, pointless being as we are a UK group.
We do not allow links in members signatures etc, as it is spam, if yahoo force this, then we cant stop our members, group becomes a mess. There are now several options,similar to yahoo groups, as well as some good free forums, this could be the straw that breaks yahoos back
Christine said,
March 17, 2008 @ 12:05 am
I share many of the concerns raised about group recommendations. “Related groups” suggests some form of endorsement. As a religious group, and respecting a range of views among our members, we are very careful about what links we recommend. I would have less problem with the idea of showing groups with overlapping membership if a weaker label than “related” were used, and if the standard text in the sidebar made it clear that the choice is automated, not under moderator control.
HR Mitchell said,
March 17, 2008 @ 12:23 am
NONONONONONONONONONO!!!
You (obviously) have no idea just how bad an idea this is. Are you hiring staff away from LiveJournal these days to come up with these poorly planned “features”?
Work to improve your search feature for groups, do not add more junk (which is what it is) to the already overcrowded group posts.
And if you do decide to implement this really bad idea, find some other way to opt out of it besides removing the group from the directory.
HR Mitchell said,
March 17, 2008 @ 12:27 am
An aside observation — it is “features” just such as this that are driving Yahoo’s market share down. Consumers do not wish to be inundated with advertising in the first place; this smacks of more SPAM being forced down the tubes of the internet, choking it up even more than it already is.
John Rooke said,
March 17, 2008 @ 1:12 am
I think it would be more helpful if you could start listing Groups with a common keyword interest, in order of either membership numbers OR average monthly numbers of Postings.
Then searches would once again become meaningful rather than in
the higgley piggley random order of listing that currently exists at present such that searchers with an interest in a specific subject can find a one member Group ranked ahead of a Group with 3, 000 members – CRAZY !! Please fix this !!
Linda said,
March 17, 2008 @ 1:23 am
ABSOLUTELY NOT for all the reasons above. My groups have already been bombarded by a recent spate of spammers trying to join inter-related groups all on the same day with same ID and same reason. I THINK I’ve managed to foil them. By conveniently letting them know which other groups our members belong to, that only encourages like-minded demons and gives them easier access.
IF, you insist on pursuing an idea that the VAST majority of your owners/moderators oppose, the featuer must be an OPT IN rather than an OPT OUT. Requiring an owner to opt out means that we’re going to get hit with this feature in our emails before we can even respond.
BAD BAD BAD IDEA.
T Matthews said,
March 17, 2008 @ 1:26 am
Reading down these comments, I find that most of them are written out of selfishness and narrow thinking, not wanting “rival” groups being promoted……………I find it will be a good idea as long as there is relevance in the recommendations and that they fall into family friendly results.
Unlike what Kathleen Gayton says (which I find totally insulting) not all alternate green groups are rogue. Freecycle is not the only green group on this planet, but Freecycle are the only group that will not allow cross promoting. All other green groups are happy to promote each other for the greater good. This is one of the reasons that Kathleen Gayton and many other similar group owners does not want this.
Happy to have cross promoting on my list. I find that members will not leave to join another, they will join all.
On a personal level as a group member rather than group owner, I find that trawling through search results when looking for a group to join can be so tedious.
To promote a personal group I would also find that “paid advertising” would be welcomed by myself as an extra way of promoting my group. This is where, for a nominal fee, that a group could get better search placement in the search results, or to remove the “sponsored links” in favour of this sort of advertising, so still making Yahoo some money, but also promoting groups instead of random businesses.
So just to clarify that I believe that this cross-promoting will work just fine as long as enough thought is gone into the way that the results are shown.
Group owners are getting this service for free, but complain about more things than they should. I could understand if people had to pay for the service, but they don’t/
John Rooke said,
March 17, 2008 @ 1:41 am
The best most focussed alternate Group sharing comes from the keyword search function. But having said that, Groups must start to be be ranked according either to size of membership or by average number of postings rather than the unfathomable randomness that currently exists.
Silke Loretta Martin said,
March 17, 2008 @ 2:03 am
Great idea, I like it. It is just what I was thinking about, too – recommending other groups to my group members. But then I felt a difficulty of being a group owner to make recommendations for other groups, and was not sure how my members would take this. A recommendation by yahoo is more “neutral” and very welcome. It would show a link to other great groups on my site, and would show my group link on other sites, too – for the benefit of all groups.
Michelle said,
March 17, 2008 @ 2:33 am
I would like some way of turning this off without having to leave the directory. As a group which regularly recieves spam emails, this will just make matters worse. It should definately be an optional thing, not just forced onto us. Definately a VERY VERY BAD idea.
Rebecca said,
March 17, 2008 @ 2:36 am
I am a member of many grooups and an owner of one. The more I think about this, the worse I think the idea is.
1. It feels like spamming.
2. The group I own is small for a reason and tightly moderated. We want to prevent this sort of thing.
3. I disagree with the premiss that it is difficult for people to find groups to join. Who are these people? I find more groups to join than I then have time to actually look at!
4. I am aware that some of my groups say “No adult content”. Presumably, they won’t want automatically to be linked to groups that do allow slightly more grown-up material.
I think it is more of an issue with things like groups that are for people with medical conditions. Would members want thousands of people in other Yahoo groups knowing that they have a condition when it isn’t relevant to the group?
5. There is therefore a clear issue of invasion of privacy, as I see that Yahoo intends to make this feature specific to members rather than merely a matter of common members in a group.
6. I want to read messages from my groups and nothing else. I do not want to see a lot of extra clutter.
JSTransou said,
March 17, 2008 @ 2:41 am
I find this to be an invasion of privacy. It is a bad idea. Yahoo, I feel we are capable of making our own decisions. The internet is vast and it’s options many we don’t need to use your services.
BL_Hobbit said,
March 17, 2008 @ 3:40 am
I am totally opposed to this idea. I think this idea is a grave error on the part of Yahoo. We spend a long time keeping the group free from spam and Yahoo is now creating something that looks exactly like spam, and in fact is spam, in that it is giving unsolicited information to all our members.
At present I’m only seeing it intermittently but if it becomes general, it will give a very bad appearance to our group. As a moderator, we haven’t yet received any complaints about this feature but I’m sure we very shortly will do so.
I heartily endorse everything said by Rebecca (2.33 am, March 17) but particularly the comment re adult content. Our group is specifically stated to be “suitable for all ages”. Hiow will Yahoo work around that one?
Yahoo: please cease this practice forthwith. We don’t want it.
Coco said,
March 17, 2008 @ 4:10 am
I am very opposed to this…..my group is a very private support group. Confidentiality is very important to my members. We would not want our group to be made aware of by other common interest groups unless that is their own decision! I truly wonder if this was even considered.
We can not delist our group as it is is important that those in need of us find us! They do find us and are extremely happy they did. They would be in a grave place in life if they did not.
PLEASE DO NOT DO THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Kelley said,
March 17, 2008 @ 4:13 am
What if I don’t want Group recommendations in my group emails? Will this be a feature I can turn off if I don’t want them? Not sure I like this idea without the ability to decide if I ant it or not.
Lenora said,
March 17, 2008 @ 4:41 am
I do NOT like this new feature at all. If I want Yahoo’s assistance, I will ask for it!
Lenora
David said,
March 17, 2008 @ 4:45 am
If I joined a group, started collecting email addresses from that group, and then began to spam those members to get them interested in other groups, you would cancel my account for violation of your TOS agreement, and rightly so! What makes it permissible for you to do exactly the same thing?
This is a bad idea at the end of a string of bad ideas. Refine Groups Search – that will solve the problem without anyone’s lists being violated or without anyone getting spammed. Adding stuff that no one wants instead of fixing the real problem – well, that doesn’t actually fix the problem, does it? I honestly can’t think of anyone in any of my groups who wants to be victimized by targeted advertising, no matter what nice sounding words you use to spin it. That’s all this is – targeted advertising, and I for one don’t want it in my group!
John F Davis said,
March 17, 2008 @ 4:48 am
Just what we need.. More ads
I too hope this is an optional feature
Misty said,
March 17, 2008 @ 4:51 am
I agree that this is an unnecessary/unwanted feature when it’s the Directory that needs defining. It could also result in a group LOSING members, as well. How about returning music and iframes to the homepage instead? That’s what owners and members really enjoy as well as making Y Groups stand out from the others!
Norman C. Berns said,
March 17, 2008 @ 5:13 am
Please, no, no, no. I don’t want my emails cluttered with YOUR promotion. If I want my members to join other groups, I want to recommend those groups – we don’t need input from Big Brother. There’s already a perfectly reasonable way of searching for groups. All you’re doing is making an unwelcome intrusion into my group, providing information that no one has requested.
This is, far and away, the worst piece of self-promotion I’ve seen. Stupid, bad, wrong.
Rick said,
March 17, 2008 @ 5:23 am
No! No! No! You discontinue a beta upgrade with promising member-friendly features, and instead “offer” us non-desired (and probably non-related) advertising with the potential to offend or destroy our individual groups.
There are other group sites out there on the net, and I’ll be among the first to search for a less invasive host for my members if such a feature is imposed at Yahoo. We have the option to opt out, sure. By removing our group from the directory?!!! Have you considered hiring some professional web coders? Surely there’s a less drastic solution.
Becky said,
March 17, 2008 @ 5:30 am
Great! Yahoo will be engaging in “spam” and encouraging “spammers” on the lists!! Do we really need more of this? We have too much spam and advertising as it is!
If members are interested in like groups, all they need to do is click on the “Category” listed on the right side of the Home Page to find similar groups of interest.
Yahoo, please reconsider this feature!! I can assure you that it will be way more trouble than it is worth. But of course, you will do what you will regardless of our concerns.
In my opinion, Yahoo is going down a slippery slope and will drive list owners elsewhere.
Joyce Little said,
March 17, 2008 @ 6:02 am
PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE leave the machine embroideries groups alone. If it is NOT BROKE so please do not try and fix it. We are fine and do not need any improving…..If you want to fix something take this Momahammad person off the groups.This person puts spyware in his embroidery designs and gives them free. Then spams addresses he gathers. All machine embroidery groups have ban hundreds of his user name for him and everytime a user name gets ban he comes back with a new one. I understand that many group owners have notified you of him but we have heard nothing from you regarding this person/persons. He owns about 25+ embroidery websites, (probably many websites in other areas) all free embroidery….we are not sure what his purpose is but he is driving us crazy trying to keep him banned from out groups. I will be happy to send you a list of all his websites and all his addresses if you would like to see them. Thank you for any help you can give us regarding this person.
Bjorn said,
March 17, 2008 @ 6:02 am
Just what we need: more stuff that appears in the email that has nothing to do with the substance of the actual message.
Also, while I appreciate having this as an option, it seems a bit heavy-handed and extreme to require that the group’s owner must unlist the group from the Group Directory to opt out.
The better way (IMHO) is NOT to make it a GROUP owner choice, but to allow the INDIVIDUAL USER to choose whether to view recommendations.
Dorothy said,
March 17, 2008 @ 6:18 am
NO! NO, no, no! I DO NOT want to see groups which may or (probably more likely) may not be related to the one I work hard to maintain and expand with QUALITY members, be promoted on our Group Home page or in our group emails or digests. I agree with those who have posted previously and stated the reasons for their opposition so well.
As mentioned over and over in previous blog posts, why not streamline the Yahoo Groups SEARCH feature, and promote Yahoo Groups (in general) like you (Yahoo!) promote the various ads featured in our emails and home pages?? Believe it or not, just because WE are aware of the Groups feature, there are plenty of Yahoo! members who have either not heard of Yahoo Groups, or are hesitant to explore that resource – for one reason or another. Let’s get THEM interested in our groups!
Jackie Boyce said,
March 17, 2008 @ 6:20 am
I think this is a terrible idea, if I wanted to join another group I would go to my groups links. The choice should be up to the individual not spammed on us whether we want it or not.
Rob said,
March 17, 2008 @ 6:35 am
The offer to de-list is a strong arm tactic. If I don’t like this I can de-list making it impossible for people seeking a support group. Many of these groups are sensitive lists where members are concerned about privacy. My feeling is this is not in the best interest of the members of these groups. A member could easily belong to a innocuous group such as a chess club and a BDSM group! The others which I would classify as sensitive would be health oriented groups.
This needs to be better thought out before it is tested in the mainstream.
Melanie said,
March 17, 2008 @ 7:04 am
Here’s a thought. While I agree with those that do not want their emails getting clogged up with unwanted info, I also agree that it is difficult to find related groups when a person wants to. Might I suggest to simply put a link on the top (or elsewhere on the group page) along with the others that are there for user management to find “related groups”. That way you only get the info if you really want it. Oh, and make it only available if you are a member or at the owner’s discretion along with an option to prevent adult content from going to the wrong groups.
Melanie said,
March 17, 2008 @ 7:07 am
One other thing, shouldn’t related groups be based on group keywords and not user memberships. I belong to Mom’s groups as well as sale groups as well as groups for my business. Related groups should be related to the “group”, not the users.
kim said,
March 17, 2008 @ 7:08 am
Please take into consideration when programming how the groups are linked whether or not the groups are PRO or CON. Right now we get a lot of advertisements for vaccines – our group is anti-vaccine, so the method being employed to select advertisements is reaching an audience that is most certainly not appreciative or interested!
Also be careful – too much cross advertising type stuff like this and you’ll have many groups migrating to other providers such as big tent, which has NO advertising and is also free!
Deb said,
March 17, 2008 @ 7:32 am
Well, I certainly hope that Yahoo! is READING! I’m with others who don’t like this idea. And I agree with the person who wrote that the whole point of simply desiring a simple and more effective way of searching for groups was totally missed. And this new feature does nothing whatever to help people who are not already members of any group who are just looking for groups to join. It’s the search engine itself that needs improving! And I don’t want spam on the one group that I moderate that is open for membership. We had a problem with spam and had to put the group on total moderation for a while. I do not want a repeat of that. And this whole idea of an “opt-out” option, basically, is the same sort of thing that almost EVERYONE was complaining about with Grouply! Seems to me Yahoo is simply trying to do a twist on the Grouply idea. How about instead of effectively “forcing” groups to accept the feature, why not offer it as an option for those who really ARE interested? You know, more like an “opt-in” feature.
DMK said,
March 17, 2008 @ 7:51 am
This needs to be a feature that people can turn on or off both at the moderator level and individual level from displaying. There is too much risk of say a family-oriented group having a list of sexually-oriented groups associated with it. There are also people who visit groups out of curiousity but NEVER UNSUBSCRIBE. They just set mail to web view and move on. This creates a false link to other interests that are not relevant. Google Groups did group association thing but by keyword associations this and thankfully set that to be a feature to be shut off as it created disasterous associations for some groups. At launch of this “feature” it should be TOGGLED OFF by default. You can force a message to the group Owner to advise of new electives to switch on if they want it.
Sandy said,
March 17, 2008 @ 8:02 am
this related group thing with it’s common members is much the same sort of thing Grouply offers. of all the cool features of Grouply, why doesn’t Yahoo offer some of those more useful things to their group users? why of al things choose spam?? and if this was to help the Little Guy groups, it isn’t. related groups on our posts are of large membered groups.
the only good thing is on Traditional mail, maybe many wont even scroll that far to even notice what’s down there.
if Yahoo users are interested ion locating another group to join, they can scroll the diectory. there’s no reason to spam groups at members when they’re not interested to begin with.
kolfinna said,
March 17, 2008 @ 8:34 am
I do not like the idea of the new proposed advertising. Please do not add more of a headache for group moderators and owners.
Cathy Stanford said,
March 17, 2008 @ 8:40 am
I don’t like this idea at all. I agree with the comment that the search feature should be improved, so people can find groups of interest. My group is not interested in getting random folks signing up because it’s a special invitation-only listserv for members of my organization. This new idea is like advertising and will create a headache for me as a group moderator/owner.
RS said,
March 17, 2008 @ 9:03 am
On the subject of Yahoo always Opting us in to new features, and this causing problems for us, I had created a suggestion on the boards about this being backwards.
http://suggestions.yahoo.com/detail/?prop=groups&fid=12172
Please add your vote if you feel as I do that new features should be opt IN not opt OUT as a default, since it is less of a hassle to us owners/mods.
ingsen said,
March 17, 2008 @ 9:08 am
Agree with most comments, there is already enough clutter in the emails. If you ad (sic) more, then the groups may look for other places for their group lists. If yahoo still go for this, there has to be a way to turn this feature on or off.
Telem said,
March 17, 2008 @ 9:25 am
You work hard to build your mail list over the years and now Yahoo gives list members information on other mail lists that may be competitors.
Yahoo should have left well enough alone.
Anna said,
March 17, 2008 @ 9:52 am
As I see it we have a links section in our groups for this kind of information. There the members can post things of interest like our group and those that have nothing to do with it but might be of interest to others. Why do we need Yahoo to come alone and put this information in the postings when there is a place for it already? All this is going to do is clutter up the postings that are bad enough already. I don’t see why we need this redundancy. It is also rather obvious the majority of people are against it.
Charlotte said,
March 17, 2008 @ 9:55 am
I hate the new function of recommendations to other groups.
I don’t like the idea of any of my groups popping up on a list in someone’s email and having to remove them from the directory to prevent it.
sheila said,
March 17, 2008 @ 10:05 am
We have enough problems trying to keep spam off the list without it coming through on everyones emails. Group owners should have the option of switching this feature off, we don’t need it and we don’t want it.
Conor said,
March 17, 2008 @ 10:40 am
I run several YGroups. I think YGroups is a great service. I don’t mind the ads (Yahoo! isn’t a non-profit). But, this related groups “feature” is no good. YGroups isn’t a social networking service; it’s for discussion of specific topics. I’m already getting these lists of related groups added to some of my members’ posts. Wouldn’t you know it?: The very first one listed is a group that’s been without a mod for years, and is loaded with porn and other spam (almost 100%). I’ve tried to get Yahoo! to delete that group, but they say they can’t do that. However, they don’t seem to have a problem promoting it on MY group’s posts.
Please, YG, if you just have to add this “feature” for some quirky reason, at least let us completely opt-out if we want to as a pref. If you don’t want to do that, putting the list on the “My Groups” page and not including it in group posts would be acceptable.
Jewelle Baker said,
March 17, 2008 @ 10:50 am
This is my second response…… same as the first!! with MORE inferences on NO NO NO NO NO!!!
To repeat my first note:
My feelings EXACTLY!!!! Our GenealogyPitt Co NC Friends In Research is a GENEALOGY GROUP DISCUSSION ONLY!!!! I take great pains to eliminate ALL incoming posts that aren’t genealogy related!!! ….and then YahooGroups has the audacity to ADVERTISE non-genealogy and “ugly” Groups to join!!!! stuck in our outgoing eMails!!! How DARE you do this without OUR knowledge or permission!!!!! Ugly!!! Ugly!!! Ugly!!! PLEASE!! STOP THIS IMMEDIATELY!!!! Thank you in advance for your consideration to this problem!!! …..and I expect a reply from YahooGroups Powers-That_Be!!!!!!!
Kym said,
March 17, 2008 @ 10:52 am
I, too, want the option to turn this feature off, without pulling my group from the Yahoo Groups directory. Improving the Groups search function would be a much better solution. My group is #4 under its topic (Netflix). The #1 group has had no posts since July 2007; #2 is a social group for the DC area; and #3 is about Pakistan. ???
There are 58 groups in that listing and few of them have anything to do with Netflix. They include groups for ring tones, homeschooling, The Fight Against Breast Cancer, and supersavercoupons. Aiiyyy!
No wonder people are frustrated!
Kym
Nubia said,
March 17, 2008 @ 11:47 am
I am mad of anger to be obliged to make advertising inside my group mails for a group against who i complained so many times to yahoo
a group of thieves who stole my art work and insulted me
what a non-sense to be obliged to make them advertising in my group mails
WHEN THIS NON-SENSE WILL STOP ????
I THINK THE PERSON WHO DECIDE THIS KIND OF RECOMMANDATION HAVE NO IDEA OF WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THE GROUPS COMMMUNAUTY, the tension and rivality we have to face everyday
this kind of recommandations will make the situation worth
NUBIA, OWNER OF Nubia_group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nubia_Group/
MaryAnne said,
March 17, 2008 @ 11:53 am
HATE it. HATE. This adds 30-some lines to a message–plus the already required couple dozen with addresses. Gives groups that may or may not have ANYTHING to do with my group.
HATE it. Make it stop. Or give me a way to turn it off.
My group’s survival depends on accessibility–i.e. being in the directory. However, I *don’t* want extra “spam” in the form of ads for other groups attached.
HATE it. BAD idea. Don’t need it. Don’t want it.
Teresa said,
March 17, 2008 @ 12:01 pm
At the very least, listowners should have an opt in or opt out option.
We do not allow links on our groups and if there is a link that needs to
be on our group, we will put it on there. Is this an attempt to imitate
Google? Yahoo works better than Google because of the features we use
now. Changing up on us will make us want to explore other avenues.>br>
Please reconsider this idea.
Dara said,
March 17, 2008 @ 12:36 pm
I am absolutely not in favor of this if the individual member cannot choose to opt out of this feature. It’s hard enough to read the messages with what’s already attached on the side and bottom. As a member of multiple groups and moderator/owner of two, I don’t feel that this will add benefit to my fellow members. If we are looking for a group that other members feel is interesting, we can ask members in a post for their own recommendations. Also, I feel this invades the privacy of members, who may not want others to know where their outside-of-the-group interests lie….
–Dara
Jess said,
March 17, 2008 @ 12:55 pm
I strongly object to this. Yahoo already adds more than enough advertising to the bottom of our emails after we click send. None of the groups I own or moderate tolerate long signatures or advertising of any sort – I’m already wasting my precious time removing what is effectively spam by Yahoo.
Equally I object to being told I can opt out of being lumbered with your latest wizard wheeze to increase advertising revenue – providing I delist my group.
A firm and resounding NO
Terri said,
March 17, 2008 @ 1:03 pm
What are you people at Yahoo thinking? We group owners do all we can to help protect our groups and members from all the spam out there. Still it seems to seep into our groups regardless, NOW we are looking to have to deal with it directly from Yahoo.
I do think you should have an option for group owners/moderators to OPT out of this. These groups are yours essentially but we are the ones who manage them and know what works best for our groups/members. This should be a “choice” not just thrown at us for us to suck up.
I am sure that with the advertising you have on our groups and the already placed ads you really don’t need to have more added to our digests. I have my members help to reduce “Clutter” within our messages to keep our digests readable, so that people WANT to read them. Now I have to contend with “forced” clutter and not have the choice to remove it?
How is this fair to group owners/moderators? I can almost predict from the posts I have read here that if ideas such as these are forced on owners, not giving them a choice you will find Yahoo Groups becoming a thing of the past.
I am strongly against the additional SPAM with my groups messages/digests. Please take into consideration the group owners and if anything, give us a CHOICE, don’t force this onto those who don’t want it.
Catherine said,
March 17, 2008 @ 1:17 pm
I’m sorry, I do not like this feature. No one on my list likes this feature. We’re all able to find other groups that relate if we want to. That’s why there’s rec’s from other group members that have been/might be on that other list.
It does show up on the ‘traditional’ message format – I personally can’t stand the new format so I’m still on the old one until they make me switch over – it simply shows up as an extra long footer in addition to the footer we already have to put up with. Even de-listing my group from the directory hasn’t stopped these recommendations from coming. It is making short messages seem a lot longer and taking up room in inboxes that may have finite space limits.
How do I turn this off for my list? If you put it at the bottom of the list’s page, maybe that’d work for my list. I peresonally don’t want it on my list, but for most of the comments that might work better. Until then, I want to turn this off. It’s a bad idea that spams us. Like we mods don’t deal with enough spam already!
Paul G said,
March 17, 2008 @ 1:20 pm
NOPE!! This is NOT a good idea, as I own or belong to many very different groups. I don’t want them publicized like this as some of them are very personal, while others are quite generalized. I don’t want the overlap.
Several of my groups won’t appreciate the SPAM quality this idea will have. If you MUST do something like this, allow group owners to opt in, not opt out. The default should be not to have Group Recommendations turned on for everybody!
Brew
Marie said,
March 17, 2008 @ 1:26 pm
We are now up to around 250 posts that are negative from 250 mods and owners and you still have not got the message.Yahoo in case you don’t know we already have a group called Family Friendly Ads. We can join that site and advertise our family friendly PG and PG-13 links at no charge and they don’t junk up our E-Mail Posts..
Each week they send out the list to those owners and mods on it and we in turn send it to our members, this gives us advertisement to people on other lists who want the PG and family Friendly groups and might be interested in adding another; in turn our members have a new list to check and see if they are interested in any of the groups listed. They gave a lot of thought to this list before they started it and it is much better then your hairbrained idea.
I have advised my members to use the Family Friendly list and not touch those on the bottom of any posts because I can not guarantee them in any way. So putting links on my e-mail posts is not going to do you any good if my members trust me enough to listen to me, which I think they do.
I don’t mind this Family Friendly Ads group, because everyone’s group large or small, gets advertised each week (albet she changed her format and missed a couple this week – they’ll be back next week no problem) and it’s all family and PG, none of this Adult, X, XX or XXX rated stuf or ‘well almost Adult Junk’ on it. They check out the site before they add it to the list and you better have a description and a picture on the front page so they can tell if it is good for their newsletter. If not forget it. They also ask you for a description of no ore then XX words to go with the site link, you get to describe your own group for them and others.
I know their owner/mod is angry over this too but I don’t see her name on this list yet. Her group I can agree with, it’s a good idea, your hairbrained idea is not, you put links on that have nothing to do with the site, and you are going by the fact that members belong to various groups – DUH of course they belong to different groups, most of us have more then one interest !! But that is no reason to take 5 people and decide to add that link to the e-mail. 5 is not a majority in any way shape or form!
As for having to op out by unlisting – that is a crock, it is the absolute most stupid idea I have ever heard. If we unlist we can’t be found at all. Sounds like another way to get rid of small groups or those that don’t want the links. Keep it up and you won’t have Yahoogroups you’ll have a dead website.
Again FIX THE SEARCH ENGINE as per above posts I’ve made and leave our groups alone..
Nora Jean Gatine said,
March 17, 2008 @ 1:34 pm
Yahoo Programmers: Remember when Google aced you for using a search algorithm based on how many websites were linked to a particular website as a measure of “popularity”? The “votes” for popularity were already being made by the public. The problem with the YG search is that the algorithm is based on “population size”. Perhaps the criteria should be made with population size and number of posts. The Yahoo Group we LEFT has over a thousand members, but has had all of 6 posts for this month, and for the last few months has had less than a post a day. Just because we have members in common doesn’t mean a thing.
What about not including defunct Yahoo Groups with MIA owners in the Yahoo Group search? When people get in touch with you and say “This list is without an Owner and is filling up with spammers.” You reply that there’s nothing you can do. That’s a lazy answer. There is something you can do if you can waste your time with this already implemented “recommendation”. You do have programmers doing something. Put them to good use and have them work on deleting the defunct groups?
As for the comment made recently that “Yahoo Groups is free.”. Well there’s other free portals that don’t put spam of competitive groups in each post to the group. There’s nothing that’s free. We do the work to create a group, get it populated, encourage our list members to participate, and in so doing we DRIVE TRAFFIC to Yahoo’s portal. It is that traffic that they target advertising energy. It is that traffic that they show to advertisers as proof that their portal is worthy of the ad revenue. So we’re working for this “free” service by being unpaid shepherds moving the flock towards the advertising.
What I can’t understand is the logic behind “preaching to the choir”. How does Yahoo Groups make a penny when people who are already familiar with Yahoo Groups are encouraged to join other Yahoo Groups that might have members in common? It doesn’t make marketing sense. What would make sense is to get people who are not familiar with Yahoo Groups to join one.
Let’s say if someone uses Yahoo search, for any reason, based on what they search for “recommendations” can pop up as a side bar. “Looking for sports equipment? Check out these Yahoo Groups that focus on sports, sports equipment, used buy and sell of sports equipment.” Then there’s a chance that someone who is not part of a Yahoo Group might join one.
But to put the links in the email is over kill. People will tune it out, just like the video ads before online news clips. Studies have shown that those force fed ads before video feeds are muted, ignored, and every effort is made to skip them.
Should this “recommendation” be seen in every email sent through Yahoo Groups people will tune it out. Group owners who feel misused in having their ANTI SPAM rules broken by Yahoo Groups and will take their member list elsewhere. It’s also a “Do as I say and not as I do.” situation, where Yahoo Groups is violating their own TOS.
Who signed off on this idea? Give them a finger wagging and a talking to for causing such a ruckus and quite possibly effecting the bottom line of the Yahoo Groups department.
I know of one polymer clay group who had thousands of list members leave Yahoo Groups and start up their own PHP-nuke set up. That’s thousands of people who don’t need to sign in to their Yahoo ID. Thousands of people who don’t need to open up Yahoo home page. Thousands of hits and eyeballs your advertisers can’t take advantage of.
I do not think that the decision makers at Yahoo care a fig about what Yahoo Group Owners want or don’t want. That much is obvious. I should hope that the decision makers care about LOSS OF AD REVENUE. When you drive away people, who have been for years the unpaid shepherds, driving the flock of hits and eyeballs to your portal, YOU WILL LOOSE REVENUE.
Money talks and everything else is walking. So do you want to keep us working for you? Do you want us to keep on tending our flocks so you can have the “numbers” to show to advertisers? Then you best keep us happy by not implementing knuckle head bits of programming that will go on to every post. It’s not an effective way of increasing usage. It will have the opposite effect.
RS said,
March 17, 2008 @ 1:57 pm
Nora Jean Gatine said:
“Let’s say if someone uses Yahoo search, for any reason, based on what they search for “recommendations” can pop up as a side bar. “Looking for sports equipment? Check out these Yahoo Groups that focus on sports, sports equipment, used buy and sell of sports equipment.” Then there’s a chance that someone who is not part of a Yahoo Group might join one. ”
That is an AWESOME idea! Add this to Yahoo Groups search too! See? Great ways to do things, free from your users!
Also let them click on a link to see all the possible groups, not just the first few that will surface immediately. Secondly, to keep out spam groups, make the group mods CHOOSE to put his/her group in there (OPT IN ONLY!). Dead groups and spam groups won’t be able to do it because there is no moderator at the helm, and mods that don’t want to be part of this will not have to worry about a glut of 10 years olds suddenly trying to get a look at their group. Lastly, let the Owner/Mod use keywords (tags if you will) to define what terms will surface his/her group, and ALL your work is done for you by us except coding! Win-win! Go Nora!
RS said,
March 17, 2008 @ 2:23 pm
Come to that, that’s a great reaosn why everything should be OPT-IN for group promotions: No spammer groups, no dead groups, no involuntary listings! Just keyword-relevant groups, as listed by those that want (and deserve) listings! User-driventhe whole way. Nora, you rock.
Nora Jean Gatine said,
March 17, 2008 @ 2:31 pm
RS: My pleasure. I’ve been mulling over other ways that Yahoo Groups can increase traffic and therefore increase ad revenue. Your suggestion of “tags” is FABOO too. Also having Owners “opt in” for the side bar for searches. You rock too. The sad truth is Yahoo started out as a search engine, got aced by Google, and now they are playing catch up. Did you read that Yahoo is in conference with MicroSoft? I’m not feeling that’s going to do us a bit of good. Yahoo Groups will be in competition with the MSN groups, don’t you think?
Mims said,
March 17, 2008 @ 2:47 pm
I’ve been getting these spam messages for “related” groups but gosh, related they were not. In one group I got 5 groups listed, and 2 were basically dead groups. The other 3 didn’t really cover what this group does.
I was on individual email but switched back to read only online after seeing 11 lines added to the emails! I don’t own any groups but I sure love to read and I won’t read all this spam!
Please forget this Yahoo–you’re not doing this for me. I know how to find groups as do most people. I just think you’re hurting most groups and most members. Sorry Yahoo, but how can we protect us from you?
RS said,
March 17, 2008 @ 2:48 pm
Ugh! That’s what scares me. MSN groups is a truly monster to behold. Post formats are junky and the web applications are confusing and clunky. The only bright spot was when I complained to them about something or other, a live person replied the first time out! Within I think 48 hours iirc. YG is almost in competition with them for Worst Place at this point. I can’t imagine what nightmare thsi service would become if they had to merge the two.
I tried Google groups and its not quite there yet, no database for example, but you can add your own pages with limited coding. The coding blows too though, so you don’t get what you see. Its almost there, but it needs to duplicate what eGroups used to have before Y got ahold of it. The reliability of message delivery is also lower, in my experience so far.
If Yahoo Groups incorporated Geocities PageBuilder to let you make custom pages, and added in the online version of YIM, and cut out the malarky, they’d be the best on the block. Google is close, if only they’d actually offer customer service, or user feedback, they’d be the kings. As it is, they don’t have a help offering besides a group for users to try to help each other in, which is less help than YA, in my opinion. They keep the door closed, which is a shame. They are soooo close to being worthy competition. I use one now, and its not bad, but not quite worth a full changeover yet. Not reliable enough, mostly.
Thanks Nora! Rock on!
Wendy said,
March 17, 2008 @ 3:19 pm
How do we turn this off????? I see that it has already started and I already have group members complaining. To make it worse I see that groups that we have differences with being advertised on my group!
Please tell me how to block these unethical groups from being advertised to my group members!!
Sue Widemark said,
March 17, 2008 @ 3:38 pm
Hello,
I think this “feature” of advertising other groups on our group emails SHOULD BE VOLUNTARY! It adds a super long footer, and may advertise groups WE DO NOT WANT TO ADVERTISE. (they are testing it on one of my groups and it’s really annoying…)
Please include something for the moderator to turn OFF this feature for their group emails if they wish….
thank you,
Sue
ReduceReuseRecycle said,
March 17, 2008 @ 3:40 pm
I think some of the commenters have a misconception. The recommended groups aren’t necessarily “related” groups. Recommendations are based on membership in common. For example, if 100 of your 1000-member porcelain collectibles group also belong to an unrelated group about showing 4-H animals, then it is likely that the 4-H group will show up in the recommendations, leaving you to scratch your head in puzzlement.
Karen Cooksley said,
March 17, 2008 @ 3:47 pm
I’m just adding in my vote with the others above to give us an option to turn this off. As others have pointed out, the groups automatically being included in footers are groups that we’ve got an issue with and we do NOT want our members being “directed” to those groups. The idea of cross-referencing groups that may have something in common certainly has some merit. However, it absolutely, positively should be something that group owners can turn off in order to “protect” their members.
Andrea said,
March 17, 2008 @ 3:53 pm
So If I am a member of a Private Group that Discusses Private Issue.. But I am also a member of a social group… Both will see which group I am part of. Regardless if they have anything to do with on another? How can you do this.. I do not want my groups inter linked… Some people join certain groups because of there privacy features.. You would be taking that away. It would be different if the groups were simular… Like Cooking & Baking are simular. And Animal health & Pet care would be.. But to link 2 unrelated groups together just cause they share a we members is not enough of a reason in my opinion.
You see this kind of thing too much in Facebook, Just cause someone is on your list all of a sudden they want u to join… You are subjecting everyone to un needed SPAM. It is bad enough I keep getting unwanted groups attacking me on my IM now you want them to attack me on my Private groups… I am members of 4 groups 1 of which has nothing to do with the other 3 and i do not want them associated with.. I do not need the people in the 1 group knowing my private business
RS said,
March 17, 2008 @ 4:05 pm
Wendy: There is no way out. YG will only put this in 10% of your e-mails, but format is irrelevant. I think Daily Digest may be immune, but I have no way to know for sure. Sorta ruins the point of being in a group to put it all to digest, I guess, but Yahoo made sure everyone was in and no one could get out. Sad that this was where there efforts were focused.
STS said,
March 17, 2008 @ 4:45 pm
What a terrible idea this is. I don’t want or need to know what other groups anyone else belongs to – just imagine how meaningless it will be on groups like Freecycle or neighborhood announcements, where no one has any interests in common except location!
- I do want my group to be listed in the directory, but that doesn’t mean I want it advertised in other groups members happen to belong to
- I do not want to change members’ delivery options to Traditional if they happen to like Fully Featured, and the group is too large to do it, anyway
How about a menu item that a person can click to see other groups,
rather than having such a huge box using up so much space, especially if it is to appear in every message? Of course, as tons of others have mentioned, if the group Search function worked, this wouldn’t ever have been suggested, let alone requested (if that’s even true that it was requested!)
Bruce Ford said,
March 17, 2008 @ 5:10 pm
If this uglifying spam feature is added to my 7 groups email without allowing me to turn it off, I’ll remove them all from the directory to prevent it, or from Yahoo entirely, if necessary. People who want to know about more groups can already search yahoo groups. If that search doesn’t work well enough, Yahoo should fix it, not mess up groups’ email! Yahoo is going to weird extremes to annoy group moderators. Deathwish?
STS said,
March 17, 2008 @ 5:26 pm
I wrote my comment above before learning that the Traditional setting will not eliminate this unwelcome list of other groups.
After all the discussion of why this was a bad idea for Grouply, why on earth would Yahoogroups adopt it? If we asked Grouply not to do it, couldn’t Yahoo have guessed we’d ask Yahoo not to do it???
I assume – and hope – adult groups will not be included in this fiasco.
Betsy said,
March 17, 2008 @ 5:42 pm
Absolutely a bad idea. To begin, there’s already visual junk aplenty on the groups and emails. Second, as a user I consistently resent websites giving me “suggestions” (ie, Amazon). Third, new groups will end up essentially poaching from and duplicating members of existing groups. Fourth, Yahoo can’t be blind to the fact that there is sometimes idealogical differences or even enmity between groups and group owners, as often a new group is spawned in reaction to an established one, so to suggest that one groups’ members be used to aid that new group in achieving new members is most upsetting, especially to those who have worked hard to thoughtfully, tastefully and kindly to promote their own groups. Fifth, improve your group search feature so proactive people can find the keywords they want. It’s obvious that the more readers YahooGroups gets the better the chance of raising ad revenues, but this is totally the wrong way to go about it. Reach outside of Yahoo to get more readers… and make it less attractive for group owners and modertators to look outside of Yahoo for better group hosts.
Cindy T said,
March 17, 2008 @ 5:55 pm
This is an awful idea if we do not have the option of turning off this feature for our group.
Keith said,
March 17, 2008 @ 6:39 pm
1. When I spoke at the DFW Moderator Town Hall regarding the spam issue (before I addressed the panel with it, this was amongst individual moderators) several of them told me one solution was to delist from the directory. I have no doubt that they were technically accurate: delisting would reduce UCE. Now we are being told that the way to opt out of this is to delist from the directory. I think delisting from the directory – since that is really the only tool we have right now to promote our groups – is being offered as a solution to far too many problems.
2. eBay did something very similar to this way back when. They decided to promote other seller’s items on your listings. Sellers on eBay complain constantly about eBay, but rarely was the backlash so abrupt or so nasty as it was when they announced this plan of theirs. Most people simply did not want it. They felt that they paid for their little spot in the form of listing fees and should not have to share it with others for the betterment of eBay. While we do not pay for our groups, we do generate revenue for Yahoo when we build these groups, which I am sure Yahoo is well aware of. eBay wisely made the decision to let people opt out of the feature and Yahoo would be very wise to do the same.
3. As was pointed out by other comment posters, some of us don’t want certain other groups promoted on our group. For instance, I run a group that is pro-choice on the topic of compulsory seatbelt use. There are several other groups that are in support of mandatory seatbelt use. Thats fine and dandy, everyone has their take on the issue and I provide a group for one side. I really am very much against the idea of having the opposing viewpoint promoted right on my main page. If people want to go learn about the other viewpoints, they’ll do it on their own.
lisa said,
March 17, 2008 @ 7:33 pm
I own several groups and we dont need advertisement to other groups listed on every email that comes through our group. We would like to be able to veto some of the suggested group links or at minimum turn off this feature. Our group rarely allows advertisement of other groups by members and dislike having it forced upon us by Yahoo. make it have an on off switch at the least.
George Pope said,
March 17, 2008 @ 7:36 pm
Dear Yahoo Decision Makers:
Most of us group owners/moderators have put much effort into promoting our group(which also promotes Yahoo), and now with the “related groups” in the footers, you are unfairly engendering competition against my investment of advertising time/money.
Please rethink and rescind this move on your part.
/George Pope, Owner-Moderator of Richmond Freecycle
Wren said,
March 17, 2008 @ 8:01 pm
Please either make this feature optional or remove it. I don’t want to have junk cluttering every single group e-mail (and we get a lot of them!) If I want to go look at other groups I will do so, but I am happy where I am, and don’t want any more SPAM than I have to have.
Thank you.
Marc W said,
March 17, 2008 @ 8:05 pm
I think this is a terrible idea. What right does Yahoo have to force groups to advertise competing or potentially offensive groups without their permission?
If the goal was to make it easier for Yahoo users to find groups then why not fix the search function? How does it make sense to force feed groups down the throats of our members in the name of making it easier to find them? Many moderated groups do not permit advertising other groups in messages exchanged through their groups. Now Yahoo wants to unilaterally override that administrative decision for their own enrichment.
The proposed policy is a bad technological solution to a problem better served through the correct mechanism – SEARCH.
Yahoo, get it right by not usurping the policy prerogatives of the group owners and moderators. If you go through with this plan you will drive many groups elsewhere. Then where will you find the audience that brings to you your advertising revenue?
Turalia said,
March 17, 2008 @ 8:13 pm
I currently own/moderate three groups on Yahoo. When there was talk of Microsoft buying Yahoo, I took steps to prepare to move my groups to Google. If this feature goes through without a way of turning it off for my groups, I won’t wait until Microsoft takes over, I’ll abandon ship now. I have no use for Yahoo’s recommendations for other groups and I do not want my groups to seem to be endorsing groups I may not approve of.
T
vpFREE said,
March 17, 2008 @ 8:28 pm
I don’t want it to appear that I’m endorsing any group unless I’ve personally approved that group.
I should have the option to turn this feature
off if we don’t like it.
Mike Baynes said,
March 17, 2008 @ 9:15 pm
Please!! do not add links to other groups in our area.
Iv’e seen some of them on other groups, they are not relivant.
suggesting a Freecycle group 100miles across the water is NOT a local group.
What the Heck are you thinking?
If you must FORCE this on us give us the option to remove it.
Like you do with the yahoo Answers
Snooks said,
March 17, 2008 @ 9:39 pm
The IDEA STINKS!! I know me and many others of my group WANT our group in tact and left alone! this is a goofy, stupid and most silliest idea ever! groups get enough spam as it is! with this NEW so called stupid feature the groups will get more spam and make it harder on everyone else! LEAVE the groups as is and get rid of this stupid new feature!!!
Syed Naseer Uddin Zubair said,
March 18, 2008 @ 12:10 am
I’m just adding in my vote with the others above to give us an option to turn this off. As others have pointed out, the groups automatically being included in footers are groups that we’ve got an issue with and we do NOT want our members being “directed” to those groups. The idea of cross-referencing groups that may have something in common certainly has some merit. However, it absolutely, positively should be something that group owners can turn off in order to “protect” their members.
Stephen said,
March 18, 2008 @ 2:17 am
The example of “group a” list members and “group b” list members having an certain level of common membership is just a whitewash. This is clearly nothing more than yahoo spamming the mailing lists – they will not have a “turn it off function” when this “feature” is activated. It would appear that nothing is free and you should move your group to a listproc server – you pay, but there is no spam generated by the host and they don’t try to shovel you shit and tell you it’s sugar.
I personally predict that there will be a head rolling out the door at Yahoo if this goes. Nearly all lists membership will certainly decrease in an effort to avoid nuisance messages from yahoo, and I can see the lists failing – but as a side note since yahoo seems to be doing nothing about spamming on the lists, you could spam your old list and tell whoever is left where your new list is!
Paw Paw said,
March 18, 2008 @ 2:58 am
RE:::I don’t want my group to be recommended. Do I have a choice?
You can remove your group from the Yahoo Group directory to make it unlisted if you do not want it to appear in recommendations.
FORGET THIS :::
I changed all my groups over to unlisted, a couple of days ago.
They still show up….
Another feature that is not working.
Don’t waste your time people …..
Havewala said,
March 18, 2008 @ 3:17 am
I strongly object. You are using the popularity of our group to do your free publicity.
I am moderator of two groups with overlapping memberships, the two groups are formed separate with a view to post one type of communications on one, and likewise the other. It doesnt make sense to post this type of advertising on my egroups.
Anna Beria said,
March 18, 2008 @ 3:23 am
As the co-owner of a large Freecycle group in the UK I cannot make my group unlisted, but I am totally opposed to this new feature. Of course, being a large list, there will be many other Yahoo groups, including other nearby Freecycle groups that share a fair number of members, so what? What you are doing here is effectively adding more spam to the already overcrowded messages received by those of our members who opt for fully-featured reception. At the very least you should give group owners the choice whether or NOT to make this feature available to their group members.
Anna Beria
Bath Freecycle
co-owner
BARBARA COLLINS said,
March 18, 2008 @ 4:04 am
This CRAP is still continuing and my members are SICK TO DEATH of this. My digest people are freaking out as their digests are unmanageable. And I do NOT want to recommend groups that I do not know anything about, Where do you get off doing this and I mean, really, WHAT IS THE POINT???? We are all adults and can find other groups IF WE WANT TO. We do NOT need YAHOO holding out hand because what — we are too stupid to do this on our own?? I am angry. I wrote to your customer care (CARE — that’s a joke) and was promised a reply in 24 hours. HA HA!! Here is the reference and I am still waiting!!!!! (KMM119926357V40219L0KM)
Barbara Collins
Owner of Dishcloths “R” Us
I am even more unhappy with YAHOO today than ever.
Coco said,
March 18, 2008 @ 4:30 am
Already I have members saying they will leave my group! PLEASE YOU CANNOT DO THIS. MY GROUP IS A SUPPORT GROUP, WE NEED TO HAVE CONFIDENTIALITY.
Connie Paterson said,
March 18, 2008 @ 4:33 am
I do not believe we need this feature!!! I am against having this feature in my groups.
Thank you,
Connie Paterson
Liane said,
March 18, 2008 @ 5:05 am
Please give us the option of turning this OFF. I’m getting complaints from my members. If you would just improve your SEARCH feature, you wouldn’t need to include these spammy messages.
Diane said,
March 18, 2008 @ 5:48 am
Good grief! I certainly don’t need anymore links at the bottom of my emails! And if I want to find a new group to join I can use the search. As has been said before in other emails. Better Yahoo spends its time refining their search function, than setting things up where our emails end up with more things stuck to them. And while I’m at it – I also hate that silly side bar that sometimes covers up information in an email and sometimes part of a picture.
Mel Heimo said,
March 18, 2008 @ 6:10 am
I want the ability to turn this off. My members feel this is a violation of their privacy and I agree.
thank you,
Ms. Mel Heimo
Kay Brooks said,
March 18, 2008 @ 6:27 am
I do not like these referrals.
1. There is no indication that these are auto-generated by Yahoo and not actually affiliated with my group. There is serious concern that the cache of our group will legitimatize other groups…and that may not be a good thing.
2. The footers of these messages are already too long. This only adds to the clutter and bandwidth usage.
3. Did it ever occur to you that some of these groups may be competitors and not want their numbers known?
4. There is no opt out feature. I don’t want to remove my group from the directory but I do want it removed from this program.
5. It’s just creepy to think Big Brother is scrolling through all the memberships and keeping tabs on who has joined what.
I don’t get how this enhances Yahoo’s bottom line. What were you thinking? What’s in this for Yahoo?
Glen Verburgt said,
March 18, 2008 @ 6:39 am
I certainly hope there is a way to turn this off .
How can we turn this feature off we don’t like it ?.
We Thankyou For your help
Linda Sorenson said,
March 18, 2008 @ 6:45 am
NO! I don’t want all this junk cluttering up the site for the support group. As someone mentioned above, support groups are confidential and we don’t want everything spread all over the place. If people want to find groups related to their interests, all they have to do is the same thing I did….a search on Yahoo Search or Google.
Susan said,
March 18, 2008 @ 7:14 am
I do not like this feature. #1 the “all or nothing” aspect of either you are listed in the directory *and* are in the group reccomendations *or* unlisted entirely is unreasonable. I think you can make a listing “directory only*. #2 As far as the whole aspect of recommendations based on common members, *why* would I want to belong to 5 different groups that consist of all the same people??
#3 Also some groups have had in place rules forbidding advertising of other groups on their group site. This gives them no choice. #4 I also object to the assumption that because there are common members that others in the group might also be interested. Affiliation is assumed. All in all a bad idea.
I LOVE my privacy - and I respect yours! said,
March 18, 2008 @ 7:24 am
HERE IS WHY I AM OPPOSED TO THIS INTRUSION:
This morning, one of our (UNmoderated) members forwarded an email to our group with the following appearing in the sidebar:
Groups related to (MY Yahoo! group name)
CRFreeStuff
9 common members
(New York/Albany Metro)
Live in or around the Capital Region of NY? Have s…
EquinesNortheast
8 common members
(Mammals/Horses)
This list is intended for people involved in all t…
ClickRyder
6 common members
(Mammals/Horses)
This is “THE” equine clicker training list! Learn …
SchenectadyNYReUse
It
5 common members
(New York/Albany Metro)
The Schenectady NY group welcomes local recyclers!…
Not ONLY are Freecycle groups NOT related to our group topic (horses) BUT apparently, Yahoo! indicates how many members our group SHARES IN COMMON with the groups they have decided are “related” to us… YIKES!
Yes, we are a “G” rated group, with a pretty harmless and not-at-all sensitive topic… but what if we weren’t???? What if we were discussing sensitive or personal topics and learned (no Thanks to the ‘members in common’ feature), that some of our members (who go by real names) may also be members of a group of a more sensitive nature?? Whose business is THAT, anyway?
Invasion of privacy happening here, I think. My vote: NO!
This is a VERY poorly thought out, bad idea!
I’m almost speechless that someone at Yahoo! actually got this approved and up and running WITHOUT running it by the moderators group for advance feedback. Whatever happened to common sense and respecting personal privacy?
Come ON, Yahoo! Techno-geniuses!! Are you really THAT far removed from how real people live their lives, what they want to see in their group emails (SIMPLICITY) and what they want out of their private online time (i.e. PRIVACY)?
Fragglemunch said,
March 18, 2008 @ 7:24 am
Allow the moderator to set what groups he wants to advertise as related groups.
The fact that 50% of my members may belong to some other group has no bearing on what groups I myself would recommend. What good is two different groups that have all the same members? So what if the rowing group and the divorced aliens group are composed of the same people? They have nothing to do with each other. At the same time, I might belong to the old farts group, and be looking for a group on pygmy wrestling. How in the world could you ever come up with the appropriate recommendation? You can’t. So why try?
In fact, if I create a new group, then in order to get members I have to “steal” those members from other existing groups. Instead, I’d prefer to let my current members know that I have a new – usually more targeted group. So why don’t I just send a message to my existing group? Because then I’d be in violation of my own policies for the group, as that particular message would not be in keeping with the theme of the group. How can I justify keeping other people from advertising unrelated material if I’m breaking the rules myself? Further, I’d have to keep spamming my own group on a periodic basis as new members joined from time to time – a group they found by using that weird new technology called a search engine.
And why don’t I simply invite them? Because your invitation facility is cumbersome and time consuming – you think I have nothing better to do all day? Add a feature to let me invite all my members with one-click, to a new group – or several new groups – and then I’ll invite them.
Anyway, to repeat – let me, as moderator – choose what groups I want to recommend as related.
Jerry Gregoire said,
March 18, 2008 @ 7:35 am
Critical problem! Calender update default.
Several times I have cut off my foot by updating a repeating item on the calender. PLEASE change the default to moderator defined or ‘this time only’. Currently the default is ‘all dates’. It is prone to accidental destruction of the previous 2 months and all future entries. Once done, the information can not be retrieved.
RS said,
March 18, 2008 @ 8:07 am
Umm Jami? You there? This is a nightmare that at least needs the pause button pushed. Its been five days now…we really would like a response from Yahoo at this point, like right now. Don’t kid yourself about the damage this is doing out here. Act TODAY. We need you Yahoos to address this immediately. leaving us hanging this long is not appropriate. Next time do this on a Monday so by Friday we’ll be done with it. I’ve spent my weekend and free time fighting this feature and hitting Yahoo from every angle in the hopes that someone will stop this madness. Day 5, no response, and no action. Is this going to be like when Yahoo & AT&T teamed up to put ads in the paid Ymail interface of Yahoo DSL users? Lots of them left too, and 9 months later, no action or comment from Yahoo.
(Did I read it right above that Digest mode is affected too? It hasn’t happened to me yet, but boy if it does, expect a renewed vigor from me).
Ann Zeise said,
March 18, 2008 @ 8:34 am
Homeschool groups tend to be sharply divided based on methods, religious preference, inclusivity. Some owners and moderators understand homeschool laws better than others.
One of the recommending links we’re seeing is Fly Lady’s, which I know is popular among homeschool moms looking for house cleaning tips. But after talking to Ms Fly Lady at your event in Sunnyvale, I found out she would not advise homeschooling unless one had a perfectly organized home, and should not be attempted otherwise. I respect her right to her own opinion, but her group should not be “recommended” as a group to attend looking for homeschool advice. Being “neat” is not a prerequisite to teaching your children.
I, too, vote to be able to turn this “feature” off.
Yahoo Groups should work at improving their search feature instead. A little “smartness” would be appreciated, and like terms suggested further down the search list. For example a search on “homeschooling” might also yield results using “home education.” A search for a state might yield groups for cities in that state, a city with nearby cities, too.
Roz said,
March 18, 2008 @ 8:38 am
This is a terrible idea. If one of the so-called benefits of this is to help people find related groups then that tells me there is a problem with your search engine, so why not do some work on your search engines to make it easier for people to find what they are looking for.
RS said,
March 18, 2008 @ 8:43 am
The more I think about this the more I strongly believe that if you keep this feature, this has to be an opt IN feature only, so that spammer groups and dead groups don’t get a free ride (and reflect badly on Yahoo and our group too), and groups that don’t want listings don’t have to go undo yet another new feature just to retain their original settings. Please give us this degree of respect. It would show that you are actually listening and do want to work with us, rather than just try to gen more clicks.
Bee said,
March 18, 2008 @ 8:45 am
YooHoooo, Jami… are ya here?
REMOVE/STOP this unrequested intrusion!
We do not allow advertisements for other groups, in our group, yet Yahoo! has taken it upon itself by invading our privacy AND our space with undesirable content!!!
Unfortunately, we can’t do anything other than let you know we don’t want to know, nor do we care about “similiar groups”. If any of us were interested, we could do a search.
Do something IMMEDIATELY! Our members are furious and so are the owners!
re: RS – Yes, it’s on digests, too, at the bottom.
Marilyn Brudno said,
March 18, 2008 @ 8:46 am
I want to be able to shut this feature off.
Marseille said,
March 18, 2008 @ 8:52 am
I agree–I’d like to turn it off. It’s just making more to scroll through in individual posts, and making things longer.
Couldn’t the feature be somewhere *besides* in *every* email message? Like a link on the group page or something?
Cheryl said,
March 18, 2008 @ 8:57 am
My group members are in riot gear ready to storm Y! Central if this isn’t removed. Every single group I’m on, has people screaming about how they want this removed. It’s an invasion that THEY do NOT appreciate. One member said they have the pitchforks and torches ready..
Right now, GOOGLE and HOTMAIL groups look darn pretty good.
I’ve asked my members to BOYCOTT Y! Groups tomorrow (3/19)
and not post anything.
DG said,
March 18, 2008 @ 9:54 am
Since y’all noted in red way back at the beginning of this blog topic that you ARE reading and listening, how about giving us back the QUICK BUILDER address book updater????? WHAT happened to THAT?
It was one of the better YAHOO! programming ideas, and then POOF! Gone! And despite repeated inquiries from many other folks too… not a word from you Yahoo types. What’s UP with that? And NO, the mouseover option in an incoming email to add new addresses ONE AT A TIME was NOT an improvement.
Geesh. Maybe Yahoo! has been taken over by Bots… guess THAT could account for the (rude) lack of personal responses, the implementation of illogical “improvements” as well as the removal of useful ones.
Isn’t it time for some FEEDBACK on this blog from Yahoo!???
For the MOST part, I enjoy the ease of running my Yahoo groups, as well as the plethora of free stuff included in the group features. Kudos on being heads above MSN and Google with the presentation and organization of the groups and the prompt, hassle free delivery (usually) of email and digests.
When you get it right, you REALLY get it right… but boy, some of the things you programmers consider “improvements” to our groups make a shambles of the hard work it took to build a quality membership (and deliver those “clicks” Yahoo! so values.)
Annie said,
March 18, 2008 @ 10:45 am
Please stop this! I’m a moderator who welcomes people, individually, to a fairly large group and now I can’t handle all who want to join because of this feature. Plus, I think some have no interest in our special area at all. We’re not really that related to the groups advertising us (somewhat, in some cases, but we’re specialized and in some cases we’re just totally unrelated) and so I’m busy having to deal with this. When they discover we’re not right for them, we’ll deal with the pile that leaves. Please just stop this whole experiment–it’s not really making much of anyone happy! I remember the last petition from 2005 we signed to stop some stupid Yahoo changes. Anyone creating such a petition now?
Diana said,
March 18, 2008 @ 10:52 am
I think someone was really not paying attention when they initiated this change. I don’t care what other groups other people are on. Maybe since someone offered to buy Yahoo then they are getting a little too big for their britches!
Stop the nonsense, and quit fixing what ain’t broke.
Diana said,
March 18, 2008 @ 10:55 am
I agree with the person who commented on the private groups. I have a private group and do NOT want my group advertised. THAT’S WHY WE MADE IT PRIVATE. Duh.
Wondering Why!!! said,
March 18, 2008 @ 11:05 am
Here is something I would like to propose, how about we all just sending our ads for each of our groups to the personal mail of each of the head-honchos at YG?
Do you think they would appreciate getting this force upon them or would they “choose” to block us and remove all that “unwanted” gibberish from their mailboxes?
I personally don’t need to know how many of the members of the groups I belong to are on other groups. What difference does that make to me? I search my groups out and choose who I join and don’t.
If you are concerned about getting more traffic to each of the Yahoo Groups, please focus your attention on your Group Search Engines. Focus on having a maintaince done on inactive groups, clean up the “dead” groups and make finding the ones who are active.
Please listen to the people here and what they have to say, I am listening to this from my groups and am finding that this is not just a “small concern”.
Respect the “active” group owners who are working hard to keep their groups running and drawing the positive attention to your Yahoo Groups. Due to their efforts you gain, through your click through advertising banners. If they toss in the towel and close up their groups you will be cutting off your nose despite your face.
Focus on the problem, don’t look on how to side step it and find the easy way out. Things worth having are worth working hard for, you have been given some fantastic ideas from your members.
Can we expect some kind of response to these posts????
Deb said,
March 18, 2008 @ 11:20 am
Amazing. Over 474 comments…and still no feedback from Yahoo!
I don’t know if this was due to opting-out or not, but I did notice that the two freecycle groups I’m on no longer have the recommended groups on them…a good thing. But that doesn’t mean Yahoo! has heard our comments and nixed the feature…nor does it mean they’re working to improve the search engine.
I mean, are we just wasting our time typing these comments? I’d like to think that speaking up still counts for something.
Jan said,
March 18, 2008 @ 11:47 am
I so hope that the Yahoo team is actually reading the feedback moderators are leaving here – and that they will take to heart that the vast majority of us have issues with this new ‘recommendations feature’.
One of the other problems I have – aside and in addition to the numerous ones already listed above – is that members sharing embedded photos in their email messages need to scroll way down to add the photo so it can be viewed in full – otherwise the already cumbersome side bar floats over and obscures the photos – now they will have to scroll even further down to add their photos – a total waste.
Most of us appreciate Yahoo’s need for advertising but these useless and annoying “features” are truly counterproductive.
Hope to hear that this new one has been shelved as the bad idea it really is, and that Yahoo will devote some time to removing abandoned groups with nothing but endless spam from the directory, & improve the search function as well.
thanks for listening (I hope!)
Kato said,
March 18, 2008 @ 11:49 am
*Knocking on the door* Is anyone out there listening to the people who are commenting on this topic?
Taking into consideration that this is only a “few” of your group owners and some out there may not even know about this “yet”. Don’t you think it is time to address these comments?
To add my opinion to this plethora of remarks, I am not in favor of the new “recommended groups”. What a mess of junk it places on messages, some are not even relavant to the group or are completely inactive groups.
To mirror some of the already comments, if I wanted/needed a new group I would “search” for it. I don’t need to have them shoved in each of my emails when I am not looking or interested.
This day and age people are far from DUMB when it comes to groups. We know where to look for them and if we want a “related” group we often find those questions posed within our current group. There we find the RIGHT groups to join and rarely are we ever recommended to goto to a “DEAD” group or one that has no relivance to our subject.
Ask a question on a group you are bound to get the necessary information you need or the direction to get to where you need to go.
Why do you think we “need” this on our emails, I personally want to see this form of spam removed or give us the option to “opt out” of this “new feature”
Yahoo tends to go from one extreme to another, either really good or very bad. Can we not find a middle ground on occassion?
Please listen to your commentors, give some kind of response so we know that we are being heard.
Bruce Wilson said,
March 18, 2008 @ 11:50 am
This is posted by Jami at the top of this list
“***UPDATE***
I see that many of you have questions and concerns over this new feature that we’re testing and I wanted to assure you that we’re reading through all of your comments. We can’t respond to each comment individually but instead will be reviewing the comments over the next few days and address them in a post next week. Your feedback is very valuable to us and we appreciate your effort to share your thoughts with us.
Thank you for your patience!
Jami Heldt
Groups Community Manager”
Jami:
It is now pushing Wednesday and given the overwhelming negative feedback on this “feature” when are you going to pull the plug on it and focus on something like improving the Groups Search engine?
I have had a number of complaints about this so-called feature and it is annoying the hell out of everyone.
Christy B. said,
March 18, 2008 @ 12:18 pm
This is my second post on this situation. I am now seeing an overwhelming amount of what I consider *Pure Spam* every time I receive messages from any of the groups I am subscribed to! This “new feature” is intrusive, irritating and (judging from the overwhelmingly negative feedback you have received) extremely unpopular!
When is this knee-jerk response going to be deleted from my daily digests, and when is Yahoo going to do what Should Have Been Done – improve your search engine? !
Nubia said,
March 18, 2008 @ 12:23 pm
dear friends if you are like me against this non sense new feature of recommandation
add your vote here on the suggestion board of yahoo
http://suggestions.yahoo.com/detail/?prop=groups&fid=79637
and don’t forget to rate the suggestion
let us claim high that we DON’T WANT THIS RFEATURE
Nubia
owner of Nubia_group
Nubia said,
March 18, 2008 @ 12:24 pm
i mean we DON’T WANT THIS FEATURE
Nubia said,
March 18, 2008 @ 12:26 pm
Dear Jami Heldt
Groups Community Manager”
WE WAIT YOUR COMMENTS ON THIS SITUATION WITH IMPATIENCE
regards
Nubia
E said,
March 18, 2008 @ 1:00 pm
I’m glad our extremely large organization is looking to move off of Yahoo Groups. I’m tired of these “features” that group owners can’t opt out of, either at all (Reject for Spam button in Pending Messages), or without messing up something else (removing ourselves from the directory).
Susan Auter said,
March 18, 2008 @ 3:15 pm
Just adding my voice to the above sentiments about privacy and spam concerns. I figure the more who say no to this, the better.
Alishba said,
March 18, 2008 @ 3:26 pm
we don’t need this stupied features plz trun off.
thx
Alishba
msesheta said,
March 18, 2008 @ 3:35 pm
My members are complaining and loudly too! This is an invasion of our privacy and I want it turned off NOW. If you want to “upgrade” something, improve your search function and your customer “help” sections.
My members do not want everyone and their mother knowing what groups they belong to! And they are not STUPID!!! If they want to find other groups to join, they will find them. Usually by referral because you can’t find squat on the main Groups page.
Whose hare-brained idea was this anyway? They should be fired.
Un-implement this feature or at least allow list owners to turn it off. For crying out loud people – is no one in the office an actual member of a group? If they were, they would know what an idiotic idea this is. We don’t want this. What part of “NO” do you not understand?
Sara said,
March 18, 2008 @ 3:38 pm
Agree with much that has been said above. This needs to be an opt-in feature ONLY. My groups are part of a subculture with diverse, strongly held opinions and some of the groups that will show up for my members are actively hostile to us. Not only that, it should be up to group owners to decide if this feature is in the best interest of their groups. Yahoo should not make that decision for us. Many Yahoo groups have a real need to screen new members.
Please remove this feature and replace it as opt-in only, or provide an option for group owners to refuse it WITHOUT delisting their groups.
Cheryl said,
March 18, 2008 @ 3:48 pm
BOYCOTT YAHOO GROUPS Weds 3/19/08
Ailsa Stark said,
March 18, 2008 @ 4:03 pm
Thank you very much, but my list members are perfectly capable of finding and joining any other email lists that might catch their interest. Several of my lists have a very active and large membership. The trailer you already add to the end of every messages takes up enough space – what you are proposing will do nothing except irritate list members, particularly those on digest. If they or I wish to look for similar groups, we are all computer literate enough to search for ourselves.
Ailsa Stark
KoratWorld Moderator
DB said,
March 18, 2008 @ 4:08 pm
Please keep this spam friendly dumped on my members feature away from us!! If my members want to join other groups they can use the search feature. As Sara and many others request, make it a opt-in only feature.
RS said,
March 18, 2008 @ 5:27 pm
Hello all, a quick note. I have villified Lee Clancey a smidge in a couple posts, because I saw his name listed somewhere as head of Yahoo Groups. FYI, he is no longer involved involved. I sent a mail to Yodel Anecdotal, and jokingly suggested they slap him for the recent changes. Well, poor Lee got slapped, they say, but he’s not involved in Groups anymore. Pls no hate mail to him, if you thought about it.
Thanks to Nikki D at Yahoo, who says she forwarded my concerns to the appropriate folks. Maybe some upper management pressure can do something good? Well, I tried, anyway…at least someone answered…
-”A hope?”
-”A chance!”
Mot said,
March 18, 2008 @ 5:36 pm
My main question is (since i came to this dance late) are those groups active? You could be sending our members to dead groups. I ask becasue i’ve found groups, go to their Home Page, to find they hadn’t had mail in a year!
Another factor to consider, we owners and most of our members, don’t want to receive the same mail 2 or 3 times at once, from 3 sources. Cross posting is a huge problem because many foks don’t have the courtsey to not do it and now they’ll have even more do to this.
I’m happy to see that your trying to make our Yahoo experience enjoyable, but i think this may be a bad idea.
Mot said,
March 18, 2008 @ 5:49 pm
Oh, another matter related to the cross posting, folks ‘leave’ groups due to high volume of mail. So, if we have people who have small ISPs, they may have bounced mails due to that, or small mail boxes, and have the same problem.
If a large volumne of mail bounces back, you close their box. Or in some cases, as you’ve done to me, you said i had an ‘auto-responder’ which was not true, never had one, never will, and you blocked me, and never un-blocked me, i had to get another ID as i couldn’t use my old one. Oh, and thanks for all the ‘auto’ replys – it helped a bunch.
Better to use your time, money, and energy on the things that tick us off the most now, ‘then’ come up with inovations. Get rid of all the dead groups (you know when our email addresses aren’t used so why not them) and maybe all those dead email addresses. You have any idea how hard it is to get an id that doesn’t have 20 digits attached, or a group name?
Emily said,
March 18, 2008 @ 6:33 pm
It has become apparent to me that my large group, a general interest one in its category, is being recommended on a smaller list which focuses on a particular topic which is included, but only as one of many topics, in my group. The smaller group has an “our way or the highway” approach to its area of interest, whereas on my group we are flexible and let people deal with this issue in whatever way works best for them.
People from the other group are joining my group, then getting angry that we do not have the same approach to this subject. They are trying to post angry e-mails to my group, or writing angry messages to me, the listowner. And all this because according to yahoo!, we are “related”.
Please get rid of this feature now. We’ve waited quite long enough.
my corporate putz said,
March 18, 2008 @ 7:38 pm
jami might not be listening because jami got fired
Susan said,
March 18, 2008 @ 7:45 pm
This is absolutely unconscienable, you are sending, no, you are recommending groups that are competetors to our customers. We are a
business based group and you openly advertise via this invasion of the
privacy of our group. I for one am outraged and will move our entire
group if this persists. I will NOT tolerate you pointing my group members
to my competetors.
Susan
Disgruntled but Hopeful said,
March 18, 2008 @ 8:09 pm
For the record, my vote for this abomination, the way it is now, is NO! NO! NO!
This is a “feature” which belongs at the search for groups level, NOT implemented at the group or group email level.
OK, many of you are screaming for Yahoo! (Y for short) to fix search or whatever, but you the owner or member are not telling Y, or coming up with SPECIFIC ideas on how they can fix it to make it more useful for us.
Y has no idea exactly how we are each using our groups (that’s a GOOD THING – it means that Y is not snooping and spying in on our groups), Y only gets involved if there are complaints about individual groups. Y is letting the owner (within Y’s TOS guidelines) to run their group as the owner sees fit, and does not know the needs of the many, various, different types of groups that are using Y’s service.
We can come up with specific ideas, BUT Y has to do their part too, they have to listen to us and implement the more usable/workable ideas. (Brainstorming often gives useless ideas, but may give others ideas which may be useful.)
OK ….. My ideas for “fixes”:
—– EMAILS —–
This abomination plus Y’s normal footers adds about 60 lines to each email and each email in a digest. TOO MANY.
Three, possibly four clickable links in each email could cover this:
1. A link to the group’s home page – where they can find some of these footer links as well as using the features their groups have to offer.
2. A link to the member’s My Groups page – where they can manage their account and all the individual settings for each groups in one place.
3. A link to Y’s search engine to find new groups. (more on this below)
4. Send me a list of addresses to make email changes for my groups. (this is needed for the email only members)
—– SEARCHING FOR GROUPS —–
The search engine has to offer various options to give the searcher the results they are looking for.
Whether they are using the regular group search or the search by category, the top page of each should offer the sort order wanted, as well as the type search wanted.
sort order —– by group size or random (the way it is now, unfortunately)
The group size is needed to give a more or less repeatable result, if a group can’t be found in one search session.
type search —– (this is new) General search or Specialized search.
This will allow private, fraternal, company, local, community, etc types of groups to be found, but will prevent them from showing up in a specialized search. This can be done at the group level when the owner checks off show my group in directory with an additional option to use this group with specialized searches.
The General search would be just the way it is now – using all of the groups (moderated or not) who are listed in the directory now. The search results for the specialized search would only give active groups who are actively looking for and will welcome new members.
(Y should notify group owners when there is a new option to be set at the group level that will allow the owners to opt in if they want to. The default for the option should be NO unless the owner allows it. For ownerless or abandoned groups, there would be no one to change these settings and they would not show up in specialized searches.)
Once you’re past this point and you have the search results in front of you, it would be a big help to be able to continue a previous search from the point you left off. If on the previous search, you got past looking at result #53, you could go to the page which shows #54.
Now ….. as to this socialization abomination which we are complaining about here, I would put it under the specialized search option. This way only the one who is interested in it can enter a group name and only they will see the search results, and the rest of the group members won’t be spammed.
RS said,
March 18, 2008 @ 8:23 pm
Disgruntled: Great ideas! I had a long commute today and came up with a whole new design for the YG main page, and search feature that would promote actively recruiting groups, and bury the dead and rudderless ones. I’ll probably post it elsewhere and link to it. Its a whole revamp, with no touchy to the existing function of the groups themselves. Surfaces content with quality control and mod control. Food for thought anyway, I’ll post what I can put up somewhere soon.
-RS
Cathy said,
March 19, 2008 @ 1:59 am
I don’t like the new feature. The groups recommended are not relevant to me at all. I would like to see the search engine improved to help those who are looking for new groups to join. I do not look for new groups to join when I am reading my group emails so this feature is a waste of space for me.
As for innovations to searching for groups. I would like Y to come up with some new search trials for users please.
gina said,
March 19, 2008 @ 3:00 am
It’s not even on my groups but I don’t want it. One is based on law on attraction. You completely defeat my intention if you do this. The others are quite selective too. I do not want thousands of members and in fact, the reason I started 2 of my groups was to get away from the Thousand-member-club. It only means they are popular, not that they are productive or helpful. I see this trend coming up more and more where there is a mixing and blending of communities in such a way that no one is unique. I’ve never had any trouble finding groups with my interests. It has more to do with the way owners name and describe their lists than this method.which really isn’t helpful, IMO>
irene said,
March 19, 2008 @ 3:31 am
I have all the groups I want and have unsubscribed to others that I don’t want. I do not need advertisements about others. If I want others there is always Google but I want just my group on the group.
Please don’t keep trying to give us what we don’t want.
Denise said,
March 19, 2008 @ 5:24 am
Gosh i hate this…they are hitting my group today.
i have to say i hate this feature. i hope you take it down.
Sherry said,
March 19, 2008 @ 5:58 am
After reading this blog yesterday, I noticed a list of “Groups related to glaucoma” at the bottom of one of the emails sent to my group late yesterday. Only one was a glaucoma related group – the others were not and this is going to put a scare into my listers when they see other health groups shwoing as “related to glaucoma”. They’re frightened enough with the glaucoma diagnosis and the last thing we need is a list of “related” groups for such diverse things as graves disease, cancer, and hypertension.
Just because some of our listers are members of other groups doesn’t mean that the other groups are at all related to this condition!
Ad my name to the long list of moderators who strongly object to this “promotion” of groups! LISTEN TO US! STOP DOING THIS!
As several other people commented – just get a decent search engine for us. Forget this “advertising”
Pat said,
March 19, 2008 @ 6:48 am
If you made this something I could seek out at Yahoo it might be worthwhile, but to add it to every email I get from each group is a waste of space and electrons. Please take it off my mail.
Catherine said,
March 19, 2008 @ 6:57 am
If someone want to find a new group, all they have to do is perform a search on Yahoo Groups homepage. That is how I have found all my groups. Many of the large groups are continually spammed by peopple who join, harvest emails, and then leave. I get the majority of my spam this way – I can trace it by the content of what they are trying to sell. This new “feature” is intrusive to those using Yahoo Groups on the up and up, but a boon to the spammers. How can Yahoo justify this lack of privacy?!? We are not lemmings and more obnoxious, irrelevant material on our posts is most unwelcome. If we are interested in other groups, there are alreay means of finding them. Please end this horrid addition to your service ASAP.
LLK said,
March 19, 2008 @ 6:59 am
As a group owner and moderator, I don’t want members of my group thinking that I actually recommend, encourage, or condone any of the other groups listed. If my members were saavy enough to find our group in the first place, I’m sure they’ll have no trouble finding other yahoo groups they might be interested in without being spammed each time they open an email from my group. I would definitely want the option of removing that feature, both from an owner perspective (to keep our group private), and as a member (so that I don’t have to see it).
Deidre said,
March 19, 2008 @ 7:40 am
This is a totally unnecessary thing that you are putting on the lists. I don’t allow advertising of other groups on my lists, unless it’s one line in a sig file of four lines or less (an Internet standard since 1991). And now that’s exactly what you are doing, violating my list rules.
For most of my groups, there are no other lists like them on YGs. For one of my lists, there is a similar list, but it is full of spam, and my list members already know of that list and don’t bother with it.
In fact, I see this “group recommendation” thing as spam.
So the only way to get rid of it is to de-list my groups from the main directory? That’s silly and stupid. How will new potential list members be able to find my lists if they can’t search for them in the directory listings? Asking us to de-list our groups is just asking us to hide our lights under a bushel basket. We won’t be able to grow our lists, and that means lost revenue for Yahoo, as there will be less “eyes” on your ads.
You are also violating list members’ privacy by doing this. What if a few people on a list about a business that they all work at also happen to be on a list about diabetes or mental health problems? They might suddenly find themselves without health insurance, or the focus of put-downs and harassment from management and fellow co-workers. No one’s privacy should be violated like this!
And if some of my list members have some things in common, that doesn’t mean that they want other list members to know this. What if I was running a list about sewing clothes and some of my list members were on a list for differing sexual behaviour? I don’t need to know that and nor do my other list members. Besides, the two groups would have nothing in common besides these few list members.
As a list owner and moderator, I am not interested in seeing other groups/lists promoted on my lists in this fashion. If you folks at YGs want your customers, we the content-providers (because without the content we provide, you folks would not have a job), to find a list that they like, fix or replace the current search engine. It’s somewhat broken. If your programmers can’t write a new and better one, hire someone who can, or out-source the work. I use Google a lot for just Internet searching, and more often Dogpile, which includes Yahoo Search. Rarely do I find that Dogpile’s search gives me anything good with the Yahoo part of its searches. Sounds like Yahoo search in general needs to be fix or rewritten, or just thrown out and a new and better one to replace it.
Also, as someone who has worked in advertising and marketing, let me explain a basic concept to you, one that you should already be aware of: you always catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. In other words, give your Yahoogroup members, list owners, and moderators, things that they want and need, like a better search engine, rather than things that they don’t want and need, like this so-called “group recommendation”. This is just one more goof-up from YG that I am going to have to explain away to my list members.
Please do not do this to us. It is not needed. We did not ask for it. Please fix things that are truly broken, and give us the tools that we have been asking for years. One example: allow list owners and moderators separate controls over Files, Photos, and Links.
Ann said,
March 19, 2008 @ 8:08 am
When I finally got around to reading the blogs, it said 502 comments. No where do I see responses from Yahoo. Yahoo claims it listens to us. Ok, so did Yahoo turn on the hearing aids? I’m not seeing that Yahoo is listening.
The consensus is the majority of moderators are against this new feature. A feature is defined as-Details and aspects of a product that describe or set it apart from similar products.
If this feature drives people away – then is it still a feature? The idea is to bring people to you, not drive them away.
I get inundated with commercials on tv. So I fast forward through them when ever possible. I go to see a movie – and get slammed with what? more tv commercials!
I had a subscription to a magazine I really liked. It at the time, had very little advertisements. Now, it seems that the magazine is nothing but advertisements and very little content. I quit the magazine.
People do not like being bombarded with ads. If there is something they want- they will search it out for themselves. But, if you drop it in their lap like a hot potato – they will toss it in the bin as unwanted garbage.
Do what the other moderators suggest – Improve the SEARCH feature, don’t slam the groups. If you simply have to involve each group – then put it on the home page web site – don’t add it to each individual email. Like someone said – you are violating your own TOS policy.
It would be very wise and helpful for Yahoo to show us you really are listening.
Betsy said,
March 19, 2008 @ 8:18 am
I really hate the “Related Groups” feature. Several of the groups Yahoo has included are VERY inappropriate for my group… possibly with illegal content. I don’t want my members to think that I approve of the “related groups.”
I hope Yahoo removes this feature quickly and reworks the search feature so that people will have an easier time finding groups they are interested in.
Already, I’ve had several people request to join my group who are members of a group I would NEVER recommend. Obviously, my group appeared as a related group in messages of theirs. I don’t find out until later when they post inappropriate content and I have to remove them.
PLEASE Yahoo!!! This is NOT a good thing!
Karen Julian said,
March 19, 2008 @ 8:41 am
I object most strongly to the proposed listing of other groups “of interest’ on the Home Page of my groups. What we belong to is our business and not up for public viewing. If people want to know what other grops might be of interest to them, they simply ask. We already get ad and don’t need any more “stuf” on our roups pages IMO..
Karen
Owner of 11
Moderator of 5 others
Member of 12 more
Daisy Dukes said,
March 19, 2008 @ 8:42 am
I don’t know why everyone has their panties in such a bunch over this. A little competition is good for everyone. So what if your members learn about groups SIMILAR to the one you manage. Are group owners and moderators that much of control freaks and so insecure in their ability to keep members that they want to totally eliminate competition? If you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.
I would recommend Yahoo move this to the homepage and not include it as part of every post. I can see where that would be cumbersome and a nuisance. But having it listed on groups’ homepages would not be an issue for me. I think this is a good idea and, like most new things, needs to have the kinks worked out.
Jan said,
March 19, 2008 @ 8:47 am
Totally frustrated here – keep coming back to check in to see if Yahoo is responding to the towering number of complaints yet – and nothing…..
(except yet more well-reasoned complaints about ‘recommendations’)
The update promises they are reading –
but it’s sure hard to tell.
Please Yahoo let us know you hear us, and please get rid of this troublesome ‘recommendations’ feature.
Jaodn said,
March 19, 2008 @ 8:57 am
I find this ‘feature’ disagreeable and feel improving the already present groups search feature a better idea. I also dislike the ‘new and improved’ version of the digest and remain with ‘traditional’ digest version.
Please consider improving the already existant group search features.
butyup said,
March 19, 2008 @ 9:01 am
I do not allow advertising other yahoo groups within my group. The groups that were recommended to my group both contain sexual content. And personally, I don’t care to have members finding me in other groups that I belong to! I like belonging to different groups to meet different people. And not to have the same topics flowing from group to group! I just left one group that is being recommended to my group. This is senseless.
This feature is a bad idea. Group owners should at least have the option to turn it on or off.
If anything, the group search page needs to be improved.
Monti said,
March 19, 2008 @ 9:02 am
Well took the time to read some of what has been said and all I can say it good ideas from all but no sence in saying or doing a thing. YAHOO is going to do what they want reguardless of what is said. I know they are the bosses and it goes the way they want it to. No matter what we say or do YAHOO is going to do what they please reguardless of what we say.
Just also dont think that it is right to list another group on the digest of a group.
Well YAHOO you will take it from here and will will just have to live with it.
MONTI
RS said,
March 19, 2008 @ 9:03 am
Yeah, no doubt! 500 responses from us, nothing from you. Where’s that post from you said was coming? This was overdue Monday. How much do you need to hear? At *least* disable the feature for now, please!
Shelly M said,
March 19, 2008 @ 9:14 am
When we get the “Groups related to” in our e-mails we are getting recommendations to a group that is opposed to our groups purpose. They are an anti-reiligion group headed by an atheist and we are a Christian group.
How can I, as my groups owner, block a specific group from being recommended by the e-mails coming from our group? I do not want our Christian group directing members to the atheist group.
Kh said,
March 19, 2008 @ 9:18 am
Daisy Dukes said:
Are group owners and moderators that much of control freaks and so insecure in their ability to keep members that they want to totally eliminate competition?
Nope, I actually tell about other groups I find interesting on my groups and put the links in the links section as well and refer my members to them often.
For me it’s nothing to do with that at all. This is not necessarily common groups or content. It’s based on common members which is a totally different thing. It’s also unnecessary. Folks should be perfectly capable of going to the search engine to search for other groups if that’s what they want. To me there are a few issues but the fact that it’s cluttering emails even more than they already are is a big deal and pain. Also this has already proven that the recommended groups are in some cases far off from the topic at hand and in some cases the content is adult related.
It’s also an issue of a group being advertised on your group that was started when a member got miffed and went off and started their own group. Why would any owner want that. I don’t have any but I know others that have.
Lisa Davis said,
March 19, 2008 @ 9:20 am
Is there an email address somewhere that I can forward a totally inappropriate “invitation” to join a sex group, supposedly a Yahoogroup?
I received it this morning, and it is a prime example of why I wouldn’t want any sort of advertising of other groups on each message I receive. (Digest posts are difficult enough already!)
I see this as another way to “phish”, apparently how this person got my address!
Denise said,
March 19, 2008 @ 9:23 am
ok…another piece of crap with this…
I am not showing on anyone elses lists…yet they are on my group.
that seems really crappy as well.
Paw Paw said,
March 19, 2008 @ 10:39 am
Found This Info :::
Update: Related Groups Feature TestMarch 19, 2008 at 10:15 am · Filed under General
Hi all,
My name is Leonard and I am the Director of the Yahoo! Groups team. There has been a lot of discussion about the test we are running with the Related Groups content in emails. We are listening to your thoughts and wanted to update you on some of our current thinking. But first, some clarification about the feature.
The Related Groups feature is a test. In a test, our goal is to learn whether the feature is useful for Yahoo! Groups users. If the feature is useful, we would want to invest more into it. If we find it is not useful, we would want to remove it or improve it. So what are the results of the test so far? Well, it is still too early to get definitive results, however the current direction of the data shows that members are joining many more groups than ever before. With that said, let’s discuss some of the feedback we have heard:
Is anyone listening to my feedback? Yes, we are reading your messages and comments. However, if you want a direct line to us about this feature, we have provided a choice in the Groups Help area to submit issues you are seeing with the Related Groups feature It is particularly important to let us know if you are seeing a specific recommendation that is a problem for you, and why it is a problem, so that we can look into addressing the issue. Please only submit Related Groups commentary, as this goes to the product team and not customer service and so we are not staffed to respond to inquires not related to this feature via this link.
The name of the feature “Related Groups”. We received a number of proposals for different names for this feature. We definitely want users to understand what this list is. For this reason, we showed users how many common members existed between groups. We are trying to be as transparent as possible about how this works, so people can make an informed decision. If we find a name that makes everyone happy we would love to update the feature with it.
Concerns about privacy. We require a minimum number of common members between groups before we would show a related group. However, use the feedback form we mentioned above if you are seeing an issue.
Logic of the results. Prior to this feature, members within groups would sometimes ask others for recommendations, but the process was awkward. In this test, we tried to come up with a simpler way for members to identify groups they might also be interested in. Developing the best suggestions for groups is a never-ending process, and we are continuing to explore ways to improve this process. We’ll continue to track the results of this test (as well as your feedback), as our goal is to provide the Groups community with the best possible experience. This includes looking for ways to suggest groups with small memberships and making sure that the recommendations made are to healthy communities.
Ability to opt-out. While we don’t have a tool on the website that allows you to opt out of this test, we definitely intend to provide such a feature in the future. Based on the results of the test, we’ll develop a roadmap for these changes.
Everyone, thanks again for sharing your thoughts on this. We have a team of people here who are genuinely interested in building a product people will love. Let’s keep talking.
Best,
Leonard
Helen said,
March 19, 2008 @ 10:43 am
I have no interest in knowing how many members of a group I’m in are also in groupXYZ. If I saw the recommendation listed for a group I’m in it would make me want to leave. Why would I want to forward something I thought was good to another group and many of the members had already seen it.
If the feature is going to continue it should be set so the owner of a list can turn it off or put it on the home page.
It also can turn small groups into large ones which many owners don’t want.
If I want to find a group I can search for it. I don’t need Yahoo to do it for me.
In a way I look at it as a form of Spam and I don’t want it or need it.
Dee said,
March 19, 2008 @ 10:43 am
please dont do this the list that i am on does not like this at all. who do you think this wil benefit i had no problem finding another list to join if i want to.take it off. put it somewhere else. or not at all.
Debbie said,
March 19, 2008 @ 10:48 am
Hate the extra advertising. Almost everywhere you go on the internet we are deluged with it. I avoid sites with advertising!
Jan said,
March 19, 2008 @ 11:31 am
Paw Paw –
thanks for finding that ‘response’ from Leonard for us – I know i would not have found it on my own since I keep expecting to see a response on the ‘reply’ page.
Sounds like “many more members joining groups’” is enough to make them keep this stupidity as a permanent fixture on our messages. Just like having a total of _____groups also makes the numbers seem impressive – otherwise why would groups that were abandoned to spam only 5 or more years ago still be in existence?
I am in a number of groups I will leave as well as a number that I will opt for no-mail to avoid the endless clutter of ’stuff’ I am NOT interested in.
I’m not really surprised that Yahoo is not interested in the concerns of their owners and moderators – just in numbers.
oh well.
Pam said,
March 19, 2008 @ 11:37 am
To me, they come across like ads and take up too much space in the e-mail. I’d prefer this either be something we can choose or that it not be done at all. JMO. Also, I would like to be able to not have my groups show up there so if that can be an option, I’d like that.
RS said,
March 19, 2008 @ 11:56 am
Jan: Aye, sadly typical. Numbers over quality. That’s what starts the death of a product. Saw it happen to Juno.com, and Tribe.net. Both still exist, but its a token effort at best. Neither one is a serious contender anymore. Maybe this issue will fade with time but if a week of our outrage and protest didn’t catch them on, not sure much will.
Rick Weber said,
March 19, 2008 @ 12:46 pm
I’m totally against such changes. I would consider closing groups I own and find else where to have them instead of yahoo. Yahoo will keep going til it ruins it & they’re left with nothing as happened to msn!
SusanB said,
March 19, 2008 @ 12:58 pm
I don’t want this excess clutter distracting from the content of my group messages. I belong to multiple groups and get over 100 messages a day. I don’t need the same junk 100 times!
I don’t like the added burden of downloading these many extra bytes of unwanted data with my email. It slows the download and burdens my hard drive with the bloat. Some people use a dial-up connection and this is *not* dial-up friendly.
Why not offer this feature on the groups web page? That way those that find it helpful can use it and those that aren’t interested don’t have computer performance problems from unnecessary ads duplicated in hundreds of email messages.
PeterInVancouverBC said,
March 19, 2008 @ 2:26 pm
BAD IDEA! – DON’T DO IT!
Our group promotes recycling and waste reduction.
Yahoo! promotes waste of many megabytes of our
inbox with repetitive regurgitation thru their love
of automated footers. We’ll put up with your ads,
but, give us a break!
Peter
Jan said,
March 19, 2008 @ 3:26 pm
Don’t forget if you are sending actual content to your groups – that you now have to scroll down 30- 50 lines or more to put that information up so that the idiotic recommendations and groups stats as well do not float over and obscure the information you are sharing. I just had this happen again today – What a pain – I guess I’ll have to learn to type:
P
L
E
A
S
E
S
C
R
O
L
L
D
O
W
N
T
O
R
E
A
D
T
H
I
S
on everything sent – not that this will take any extra time -
RS said,
March 19, 2008 @ 3:48 pm
Jan: You might try switching your message delivery format to Traditional instead, then at least the junk is on the bottom. Digests will still be a pain tho.
Web only looks like an option, but then, why have a group at that point.
Mims said,
March 19, 2008 @ 3:51 pm
Jamie, have you left and now Leonard is running things from the other site? Seems you guys already made up your mind. What kind of confusion are you trying here? http://www.ygroupsblog.com/blog/2008/03/19/update-related-groups-feature-test/ for the other site.
Annie said,
March 19, 2008 @ 4:03 pm
Good grief, what is going on Mims? Yes, the conversation switched? Now what, Leonard is in and Jami is out? Thanks for telling us folks. Now that we’ve posted so much here, we just have to go to http://www.ygroupsblog.com/blog/2008/03/19/update-related-groups-feature-test/ to tell them again only looks like this Leonard made up his mind, didn’t he.
What did I miss that we were supposed to go elsewhere? “Minions of Evil Leonard” I thought was an example and a joke. Ha on me.
PeterInVancouverBC said,
March 19, 2008 @ 4:08 pm
In re-reading some of the posts, made to date, how
about… IF “Membership requires approval”,
let that indicate to you that your SPAM will NOT
be a welcomed feature.
Peter
RS said,
March 19, 2008 @ 4:34 pm
Peter, that’s a GREAT idea!!
Jan said,
March 19, 2008 @ 6:56 pm
Those messages are the ones with photos and html – so I don’t think Traditional would work – I already read most of the 70 groups I belong to or own on the web – but I feel sorry for the members of the groups I own who are going to have to wade thru, scroll down etc in order to see messages as sent in their email.
Thanks for the suggestions –
)
Rosemary said,
March 19, 2008 @ 9:00 pm
I don’t see ANY benefit to me in your proposed plan. It’s just one more opportunity for spam and unwanted advertising. Your “opt-out” option isn’t a true option at all; any group that opts out will basically disappear. If you had a sincere interest in your groups and members, you would provide for a way to opt-out without being removed from the directory. Your search engine has always been terrible. I know you have the capacity to get this up to speed, since you have one of the most successful search engines on the web. I will probably very sadly unsubscribe to any group where you do this. I don’t actually think you’ll pay any attention to these comments, but I’m writing on the remote chance that you will.
Phil Johnson said,
March 19, 2008 @ 10:44 pm
For crying out loud give us the option to turn this off. You have me advertising a competitive group that is trying to destroy our ten year old group of 1400 subscribers.
Why Why WHY do you spring something like this on us without any warning or choice?
siggie said,
March 19, 2008 @ 10:45 pm
Whiners!!
Everyone loves free products but hates it when the makers try to thrown in ads or generate additional traffic to continue to provide free service. I didn’t see anybody offering to pay for premium, “spam”-free service. By the way, it isn’t spam when there are are group recommendations on the side. gmail has a similar “feature” on every email.
Whether one likes it or not, the world has moved on: OS’s requiing GigaBytes of disk space are ‘in’, VGA resolutions are out, wide screens are in, VCR’s are out, ad-based content is in, and so on…
I’m an old fart and have a soft spot for pioneers of the internet (yes, i’m aware that includes the US military for the experimental projects that led to it) Free email rocks! Free ‘groups’ lets me stay connected and share common interests. Let’s follow a few examples and throw in some constructive criticism instead…
Nicole said,
March 20, 2008 @ 5:53 am
I absolutely HATE this! HATE IT HATE IT HATE IT.
Hurry up and implement a turn-off feature. My group already chats too much (over 2000+ messages per week) and many of my members are annoyed at the length of some messages. To add this is even more inconsiderate to their inboxes. As well as… who said that I WANTED to advertise for competitive groups? It would have been nice to have received some warning before this crap started showing up on messges.
Ugh. Thanks AGAIN yahoo groups for getting it wrong.
Nicole
PS… to Siggie said… I would rather pay for a tool that I can use that limits or eliminates unwanted advertisements… than continue t