Groups Tip: What to do if your group’s messages are being reposted to a blog without permission
What can you do if you think your group’s messages are being reposted to a blog without permission?
If you believe the poster is someone from your Yahoo! Group, or if you think that Yahoo! hosts the public blog, you should report the incident to Yahoo!.
You can report a violation of your privacy on TypePad (MoveableType) here: http://support.sixapart.com/cgi-bin/sixapart.cfg/php/enduser/ask.php?p=tp
You can report a violation of your privacy on Blogger (Blogspot) here: http://help.blogger.com/?page=troubleshooter.cs&problem=&contact_type=main_tos&Submit
Yahoo! Groups give Yahoo! users a place to meet, interact, and share ideas with each other. Just like a real community, you may have different opinions than other Yahoo! Groups users. The Yahoo! Groups experience is best when people remember a few rules. Yahoo! sets out the terms and conditions of your use of our services in the Yahoo! Terms of Service, our Guidelines, and in other rules that we may place on our site. For your use of Yahoo! Groups, some of the key things to remember are:
- You may not harass, abuse, threaten, or advocate violence against other members or individuals or groups.
- You may not post content that is harmful to minors.
- You may not post content that is obscene, otherwise objectionable, or in violation of federal or state law.
- Stay on topic. Although all groups are different, most groups appreciate it when you stay on topic. If you constantly stray from the topic you may be moderated or removed from a group altogether by its owner.
- You may not add members to a group without their permission.
- You may not use Yahoo! Groups for commercial or advertising purposes.
- You may not post content which infringes the intellectual property, privacy or other rights of third parties.
- You may only post adult-oriented content in age-restricted areas. You must be 18 years old or over to access these areas.
- Some content may be more appropriate in some contexts than others. Yahoo! reserves the right to remove content that it determines, in its sole discretion, to be inappropriate and in violation of our rules. For example, discussions or depictions of bestiality, incest, excretory acts, or child pornography may be inappropriate if placed in a sexual or otherwise exploitative context.
- You may not use Groups solely for the purpose of storing and archiving files.
- You cannot re-post or re-transmit content that belongs to another user without that user’s permission. A Groups owner or moderator (or any other user) cannot re-post or re-transmit Groups content to any other site unless the person has the explicit permission of every group member whose content is being re-posted or re-transmitted.
Jami Heldt
Groups Community Manager
Jeanne said,
January 24, 2008 @ 10:26 pm
What about lists who provide and share information with one another, news and information that is not their private property to begin with, but which they are using for personal use, non-profit and educational purposes?
For an example, a specific group of people concerned with whaling in Japan may form a group to discuss what the latest new is in this killing of whales. Another group in another part of the country or world, feels the same way and they are always sharing news and important information with one another? As long as no one complains, in instances like this, will there be any problems?
Thank you.
Kristy said,
January 25, 2008 @ 12:27 am
Does this also apply to members that may be cross-posting an article on a subject if they belong to more than one group that discusses that particular subject?
Barbara Shelton said,
January 25, 2008 @ 2:52 am
I have 2 groups. I moderate both groups. We have some members on both groups and we exchange posts between these groups. One is a chat group for Yorkshire Terriers. One is a chat group for Yorkshire Terrier groups. All members can post. While we may choose to cross post between our own groups, we really do NEED to post or cross post to other groups in order to help with the rescue dogs. How will this new “rule” apply to us? This constitutes a real problem as this will severely restrict our use of our own group and will negatively affect the rescue work all the way around. Comment please.
Thank you
Barbara Shelton
Founder/President SBRKY
Owner/Moderator SBRKY- Small Breed Rescue of Kentucky
Jennifer Vanfosson said,
January 25, 2008 @ 4:09 am
What about a group owner that take her entire group and moves them to another group she has created? She does not give any of these members the chance to say no or remain with the orginal group?
Frank B said,
January 25, 2008 @ 4:12 am
What if a person wants his/her content that is in the archives of a group remove? I don’t think it is right that a group can ban a person then keep his/her content in the group archives. I think they should be remove.
And if a person can how do you go about it?
Victoria K said,
January 25, 2008 @ 6:05 am
If a person has a tag group-are they allowed to snag from elsewhere to tag if there is no creater or ownership ID visible on that tag?Does just putting your name or initials on a tag constitute ownership?How do you contact a person for permission if there is only a name or initials on that tag you’d like to use -for permission to use it in your tagging group?
Tricia J. said,
January 25, 2008 @ 6:21 am
It’s quite clear if you read the Guideline that if you get permission from the poster whose post you are planning on forwarding, then you’re in compliance (with the YahooGroups TOS and with copyright law). PERMISSION is the key, and it needs to be explicit – it can’t be assumed.
So, if you get the permission of each list member to forward their own posts (they can’t give you permission to forward the posts of other list members), you’re good to go – no problem.
It’s the forwarding of posts by those from whom you have not received permission to do so that’s the problem and the violation not only of the TOS but of copyright law. If you didn’t get their permission, why on earth are you using their property without their permission?
Lou B said,
January 25, 2008 @ 7:01 am
Last May, I banned a long time member of my group for this same reason. I gave him 2 warnings about taking posts from my group and forwarding them to another group. The posts even contained my email address & ID. He just couldn’t understand why I would kick him off & ban him. I did not know of this rule & I’m glad to be informed.
Jube said,
January 25, 2008 @ 7:23 am
The whole homeschool community has an understood rule that if the post is personal (about our families) we don’t forward it. BUT we use yahoogroups extensively to share information about classes, activities and events in the homeschool community. Sooo, how do we do this? I mean it’s implicit that if you send an event announcement that it can be shared with other groups. We also have permission to send newsletters in the homeschool community. We share information. How do we handle this re-emphasized rule in a community with understanding among the members?
Blessings,
Jube
Fran Schiavo said,
January 25, 2008 @ 7:25 am
“Key things to remember” includes:
“You may not use Yahoo! Groups for commercial or advertising purposes.”
Could we have some discussion of just what this means? In a yahoo group for our town members post garage sales, homes for sale and rent, classes, and all manner of services they provide. Other groups on collectibles advertise items for sale – and in fact, exist to assist members in the process of buying and selling the collectible. In most groups, members with websites (including commercial websites) include a link in their signature.
Either all this activity is prohibited or the guideline doesn’t mean what it says.
Gabe said,
January 25, 2008 @ 9:19 am
This message says that almost every group is currently in violation.
Copyright law does indeed give an automatic copyright of each message to its owner. The owner gives implied (but not explicit) permission to retransmit this message to other list members. There may even be implied (but not explicit) permission to quote from the message in a reply. The fair use doctrine also probably allows most short quotes in replies.
However, this is not what the Yahoo contract (Guidelines) says at all. Instead, it says that NO re-use is allowed of the content without the EXPLICIT permission of the author. This creates a contractual obligation on the moderators and list members that is far beyond what is required by the copyright act. It is an obligation that very few groups can currently meet and a very unreasonable obligation at that.
Diane Jeffers said,
January 25, 2008 @ 10:32 am
What good can come of this. You can spend weeks trying to get one person to answer you for permission.. When the copywrite office was called, It was explained that items can be shared, used and shared among others only if it does not make money for the user. Unless yahoo rewrites their policy I forsee most groups going to msn or google. Moderators, owners and people can not spend the majority of their lives tracing owners of pictures etc. This means no one can get information off of the net, news, help etc without permission.. This is unreasonable. This means why have a copywriting system. Yahoo makes its own copywriting laws so no one can share while using their groups. This makes no sense. I will move everything i have over to google, where they respect the rights of individuals and the federal governmental offices , copywrite offices.
Bobbie said,
January 25, 2008 @ 11:01 am
I have no problem with adding “Crosspost Permission* to the posts I want shared and having people ask me (before) they share the contents of my other posts outside my groups. I just wish there was some way to enforce that guideline (along with people that troll groups for the sole purpose of “harvesting” members and information for their own lists) but I’m afraid it’s a lost cause.
R Rose said,
January 25, 2008 @ 3:54 pm
Jamie, I met you at the very first Moderators Forum in Sunnnyvale. I totally agree with Gabe’s post (the attorney above). Your TOS exceeds fair use and copyright law by far. But in addition, to currently not having ANY Yahoo groups in compliance, this TOS is certainly unreasonable at best and unenforceable unless you delete all current Yahoo Groups for violation. These recently-modified TOS actually prohibit each and every reason someone might have for creating or belonging to a Yahoo group. Of them all, #11 is likely the most backwards and inappropriate. Can Yahoo see the duck in that picture?
I can’t believe your own (probably quite capable otherwise) attorneys would sign off on such a draconian rules as they are written here. And for a while, I thought the new Groups sub-organization was about improvements, increased advertising revenue opportunities and customer service. Like so many others, I’ve always been ready to jump to a more reasonable competitor. Somebody has been sniffing too many dilithium crystals.
a member said,
January 25, 2008 @ 6:33 pm
Hello,
I aggree with the aattorney and Ms Rose; and I would really love to get replies posted up here for members and moderators as well as owners.
You may repost the follwing;
What about groups whose Moderators and members include links for their products and sell their products to members of thier groups. One example I am on is a horse list where members sell feed and other products to each other. I do not adhere to this practice but others including the Moderator do.
Some lists sell animals on their lists.
Other lists stem from Owners who run non profit volunteer organizations and provide education to members and well as to members of the agendcies off line. Information is generally transferrrable by non profit educational agencies. An example is dog rescue and over weight management, two groups I also belong to.
It would seem that it would be simpler for all involved if memberres, Moderators and Ownes were given a choice to check whether or not, or to include it in their signature as many do, including myself…would not solve the problem. Everyone would know whose info they can and can not cross post or otherwise copy? Please do consider this as a part of your next update.
Thanks!
Administrator said,
January 25, 2008 @ 10:47 pm
Hi everyone –
My blog post was simply to answer the frequently asked question we’ve been getting about what to do when a group finds that its messages are being reposted to a blog without permission.
So if your group members currently don’t have a problem with the way the group works, there isn’t anything to worry about. I just wanted to reference the guidelines; nothing has changed, sorry for any confusion that I may have caused.
I’ve updated the post above in attempt to reduce confusion.
Best,
Jami Heldt
Groups Community Manager
Pierre Donaldson said,
January 26, 2008 @ 5:31 am
I’m in full agreement with Tricia and Lou.
I’m always baffled by the eagerness of people to nick other
people’s (copyrighted) mails and information (remember there’s
also a thing called compilation copyright) to post as if their
own effort or to boost their group — falsely hiding behind
“fair use” and “free speech”. Crossposting without permission is
unreasonable and unmannered. And it is great that YG has
rule (11) in place!
I fear I do not understand the problems some posters refer to:.
IMO you can always crosspost:
– parts of a post in a group in your reply to that same
group (implied permission) (as Gabe says)
– your own posts (provided they do not hold parts
of posts of others) (your own copyright) (Barbara)
– announcements by public bodies [and no, news articles
are not that, see below] that clearly are meant to be
distributed widely (implied permission) (Jube)
– URLs, (small) quotes from public sources (newspapers etc)
and the like (fair use) (Jeanne)(Diane)
But you may never crosspost:
– mails or stories written by others (their copyright)
This includes moving posts to other servers or archives
(Jennifer, Frank).
– summaries of articles or reports of events made by
others, nor newsletters made by others (compilation copyright)
– full articles (from newspapers and journals) if you do not
hold the copyrights (Kristy)
– and no, whether you make money with it or not is not
relevant (Diane), otherwise I could post your private
diary on the web for free.
How does that make the running of groups impossible?
Srihari said,
January 26, 2008 @ 6:05 pm
Only one thing to add to the money thing Pierre..at least US law requires you (when you defend your copyright) to demonstrate that your ability to make money in the market was significantly affected. This usually cannot be excused. Everything else is on the defendant, since almost always copyright cases are civil and the defendant doesn’t have that many rights.
But neglecting fair use principles can result in punishment for the one bringing a copyright infringement lawsuit unnecessarily especially to harass a person or a group.
Moving posts to other servers is acceptable for archival purposes and a Nevada court ruled in Google’s favor recently.
Pierre Donaldson said,
January 27, 2008 @ 4:23 am
>Moving posts to other servers is acceptable for archival
>purposes and a Nevada court ruled in Google’s favor recently.
Thanks for that correction, Srihari.
What I had in mind was that of a non-Yahoo forum moving
its archives to Yahoo, or the reverse, so the context to which
you posted your mail changed a lot. Let alone if the archives
now become public while being closed before…
I do not know whether that sort of move is illegal, but it is
sure unpleasant and I do not think Yahoo would allow it
(rule 11 above).
Carl said,
January 27, 2008 @ 11:00 am
Whatever happened to the directly structure for Y!Groups? It used to be so much easier to find groups and now it is a pain in the neck to find what I am interetested in.
jamezu said,
January 27, 2008 @ 10:34 pm
I think it is still better if we seek permission first from the original author of the post. But if that happened to me, a simple link bank will suffice and i’ll be glad. n_n
Irene K said,
January 27, 2008 @ 10:51 pm
For those concerned over sharing of their messages between specific groups, why don’t you just add a statement into the close of your messages granting permission. Something to the effect of, “My post may be cross posted in its entirety with (group name 1), (group name 2), etc.” This is, of course, assuming that cross-posting is allowed within said groups. You’ve given permission – up front – for such activities while spelling out limits to how your post can be reused by naming the specific groups too. That should resolve matters for people who are willing to share their posts.
Most of the concern being expressed here, however, has to do with the reposting of content OUTSIDE of a Yahoo Group into a blog controlled by some other party. (One not under the control of the group owner/moderator/or members of a discussion group.) This is a very different kettle of fish, where permission was clearly never asked or implied in any way.
I know there’s a lot of opinion being expressed here… But, when it comes to fair use, we’re getting very much into subjective areas. That is, where the exact circumstances of a particular instance has to be known first. Then again, the topic of what constitutes fair use can vary from country to country too. So, wasting a lot of air time on viewpoints that may or may not apply to a given situation isn’t accomplishing much. (My 2 cents on that topic, anyway!)
For those concerned… The 100% correct and SAFE way to re-use content – regardless of source – is to ask permission first. That way, there never is any confusion over the issue. As I also said before, if you wish to give permission – up-front – for republication within specific groups, you can say so inside the body of your message.
In closing, I’m not going to get into a ‘debate’ with anyone over what is or is not fair use. As I said, that is a subjective matter that involves specifics of an incident. You simply CANNOT make sweeping generalizations that will hold true in each and every instance. ‘Nuff said on this topic, IMO…
southernbellebarbie said,
January 28, 2008 @ 12:17 pm
What about posting private e-mails and private personal photos on groups WITHOUT permission? I have reported this several times and nothing has been done. Thanks.
adam baker said,
January 28, 2008 @ 12:37 pm
I joined here and even though I own and moderate 9 Yahoo Groups the site won’t let me post a new topic. Is this more Yahoo or is it just me?
Lara Poirrier said,
January 31, 2008 @ 12:49 am
This is a HUGE problem on one group that I moderate. A group of three to four people keep taking posts from this group, forwarding them to their Yahoo group and then replying among themselves, bash on the original poster on my group. I also have complained to Yahoo several times with no response.
We live in a small community and people hear by word of mouth how these women rip them up one side and down the other. Everytime someone joins their Yahoo group and complains, they claim it does not violate Yahoo Groups TOS. So in this situation, would I file a complaint the next time it happens?
LP said,
February 4, 2008 @ 4:39 pm
Permission granted to post this in our Yahoo group rules?
Cindy Carter said,
February 7, 2008 @ 9:03 am
What about?
http://www.grouply.com
They are clearly in violation as they are treating Yahoo Groups like My Space or a Blog.
Others who are not members of our group can now see our group information if using an email address from http://www.grouply.com.
We have banned users who have a grouply email address from being a member of our groups.
Grouply is clearly removing PRIVATE from our Private Groups.
Is Yahoo doing anything about this?
Cindy Carter
Cindy
Rich Reimer said,
February 7, 2008 @ 4:08 pm
Cindy,
I am co-founder of Grouply. In Grouply, you can not see group information (e.g., messages) unless you belong to it. We clearly state this on blog.grouply.com/protect under the “How does Grouply protect the confidentiality of my group messages?” question.
As has been pointed by one of the moderators of the EmailList-Managers in this post (http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/EmailList-Managers/message/90927), Grouply only messages to users that are members, even if the group has public archive on Yahoo Groups. So Grouply is more secure than Yahoo in that case.
Rich
TD said,
February 12, 2008 @ 9:30 pm
Regardless of what Grouply executives Rich Reimer and Mark Robins say, here are the concerns about Grouply that I have not seen them address to my satisfaction in any of their dialog in the various groups addressing this topic:
1) My groups activities are strictly not-for-profit, all-volunteer operations. We abhor the notion of any profit-making third party making use of our message archive for the purpose of targeting advertising, which is the planned purpose for the Grouply system; i.e., to use Yahoo! Group message archives and traffic for generating advertising revenue.
2) Major banks, credit card companies, retailers and government organizations all have strong security measures in place, but they have lost private and confidential information. Given that the Yahoo! TOS says that a user is responsible for keeping their password confidential, and that the user is “fully responsible for all activities that occur under your password or account” (http://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/utos-173.html), it seems possible that a Yahoo! member who surrenders their password to Grouply (as is required for Grouply subscription) could be held responsible for abuse committed in Yahoo! Groups or elsewhere by someone who stole that password from Grouply. Grouply’s only answer so far to password security concerns like this is that they are stored in encrypted form on their system, not visible to humans. Even IF that is true, they certainly have application programs capable of USING the passwords to act as if they are the Yahoo! subscriber. Someone capable of stealing the code needed to generate such applications can abuse all the passwords in Grouply’s possession. This could be a hacker into Grouply’s system, or a disgruntled Grouply employee, etc.
3) The way the Grouply system works, once any ONE Yahoo! Group member joins Grouply, the message archives of ALL of that member’s Y! Groups can be scraped from Yahoo! and mirrored on Grouply’s website servers. Besides this being a violation of YG Guideline #11 and thus the TOS, it overrides the respective groups’ owners right to control who uses the message archives, because once they are present on another network’s servers, Yahoo! simply CANNOT ensure security of them, something which group owners depend upon and trust Yahoo! to do. In effect this means that any ONE Yahoo! Groups user can unilaterally decide to pipe the entire message archives of any and all groups they join off-site from Yahoo!’s servers to Grouply’s. The potential for abuse is staggering. We also would have no idea who could come into possession of Grouply.com in the future … it could be Google, or some Chinese company, or a wealthy criminal. For Yahoo! to not take action to prevent this scraping of message archives in their entirety, past, present and future, leaves me questioning whether Yahoo! can be trusted with the confidential and private nature of our groups message traffic.
-TD
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elmmember said,
February 13, 2008 @ 11:35 pm
What, if anything, is Yahoo doing about Grouply’s violation of this Yahoorule:
11. You cannot re-post or re-transmit content that belongs to another user
without that user’s permission. A Groups owner or moderator (or any other
user) cannot re-post or re-transmit Groups content to any other site unless
the person has the explicit permission of every group member whose content
is being re-posted or re-transmitted.
There is some difference between Grouply and a blog, since only groupmembers see messages, but did Yahoo give Grouply permission to make archives available elsewhere, without any notification, let alone permission, from the group owners of groups that do not have open archives?
The individual senders of those messages certainly did not have an opportunity to give consent for group members to be able to see an archive.
Andy Swarbrick said,
February 13, 2008 @ 11:42 pm
TD,
I will address your concerns as you list them.
1.If you do so abhor advertising supported services then please explain why you use Yahoo Groups at all. Also form your words you should actually welcome Grouply since there is no advertising, and what you have said is in fact a compliment to Grouply.
2. You can get some assurances in the TrustE license which guarantees your privacy in line with Grouply’s privacy statement. I note that you do not criticise that!
3. If you are serious about those kind of allegations I would recommend you ask TrustE to verify for you that Grouply have taken suitable precautions. If you are not serious, then of course, don’t bother.
TD said,
February 15, 2008 @ 1:38 am
Hello Andy Swarbrick,
You said, “If you do so abhor advertising supported services then please explain why you use Yahoo Groups at all.”
I did not say that I object to all advertising supported services. As a Yahoo! Groups user, that would be nonsensical, as is your implication that I don’t realize that Yahoo! draws revenue from the Yahoo! Groups service.
I use Yahoo! services because I appreciate the value they provide to me in return for the value they receive. Grouply adds no value to my experience of Yahoo Groups, so I won’t share my Yahoo!-hosted data archives and activities with Grouply.
“Also form your words you should actually welcome Grouply since there is no advertising …”
That seems a deceptive statement. Grouply has stated that targeted advertising will be their means of raising revenue. The fact that it’s not there yet in beta means nothing.
“You can get some assurances in the TrustE license …”
No, I can’t. Maybe you can.
License? What “license?” TrustE is a standards certification service, not a licensing authority. I take no “assurance” from their certification process, not when involving a company that has no contractual commitment with me. I am in a contractual relationship with Yahoo!. I have no contract with Grouply, and they expect me to surrender my data to them without one!
“If you are serious about those kind of allegations …”
What “allegations?” Do you seriously pretend to think that Yahoo! can maintain the security and integrity of data archives stored on grouply.com servers without some sort of security arrangement between them?
“I would recommend you ask TrustE to verify for you that Grouply have taken suitable precautions.”
I’m not inclined to be receptive to any recommendations you make about anything, given your highly vocal advocacy for Grouply in so many venues.
Whatever so-called precautions TrustE certifies, they have not certified the thing I’m looking for from Grouply, which is to stay out of my groups.
“If you are not serious, then of course, don’t bother.”
Not nearly as clever a statement as it seems intended to be.
I am completely serious about my view of the Grouply service, and about my concern for the privacy and security of my groups’ data, and about my group members’ adherence to the TOS and our groups’ internal rules and policies. Your comments, however, are a little hard to take seriously, given your statements elsewhere (I can’t remember where at the moment, but your name and your Grouply advocacy activism is well known, including the blog hyperlinked to your name at the top of your comment here) saying that you’d like to get in on some share of Grouply’s business when shares become available (as if that’s ever going to happen).
Take the last word, pal. I won’t waste any more time debating tit-for-tat with an avowed advocate for a profiteer with hopes it will garner him access to a piece of the action some day.
TD
andrea said,
February 26, 2008 @ 8:03 pm
Can you please tell me how puffin 49@aol.com can ban me for posting a wanted ad for an exercise bike wrong. I read the instructions over and over on how to post and thought that I did it right . Everytime I try to post an ad she emails me with nasty things . She is very mean and now has banned me because I post the ad this way Wanted: exercise bike, Mahwah , Nj please tell me how that was worng and what can i do now because she banned me from the site for nothing I didnt do anyting worng to deserve that I just wanted a bike I lost 60 lbs and was trying to not be so flabby. I have 3 children and cant buy a bike for my self . This is her email
Subject Wanted: Exercise Bike,Mahwah,NJ
From puffin
Date Tuesday, February 26, 2008 8:59 pm
To anjsoha@optonline.net
Since 2006 we have asked you to please follow posting guidelines.
These are the dates of our emails to you asking you to please read and save
the guidelines for reference prior to posting:
Jan. 20th, Jan. 14th, Jan. 12th, Nov. 25th, ‘07, July 11th, ‘07, April 12th, ‘07,
Nov. 26th, 2006, and June 26th, 2006.
The last ‘conversation’ we had was in January in which you felt put upon and
said you were leaving the group. We think maybe you should and so we
will help you in that endeavor.
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April 12, 2008 @ 1:45 pm
Здравствуйте, уважаемые форумчане. Ситуация следующая: всерьёз задумалась о своей карьере, в данный момент имею законченное высшее образование в МГИМО, сейчас хочу повышать свою квалификацию и получить степень MBA. Однако, столкнулась с огромным количеством бизнес школ, и если можно так выразиться, глаза разбегаются. Помню лет 6 назад, когда первый раз узнала об MBA программах, в Москве ведущей школой был Мирбис, однако сейчас, ввиду большого колиества бизнес школ не знаю что выбрать. Поэтому решила спросить у Вас совета: быть может кто-либо из Вас, или Ваших знакомых получали степень MBA и Вы можете мне порекомендовать бизнес-школу. Хочется получить оптимальное соотношение цена/качество. Нашла через google Mba Москвы, где преподают MBA, но по ним нет отзывов, что затрудняет мой выбор. Простите меня, если написала свой вопрос не в тот раздел (долгое время не пользовалась интернетом).
Заранее огромное Вам спасибо за рекомендации, и за ответы на опрос.
С уважением,
Александра.
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June 18, 2008 @ 2:01 am
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June 18, 2008 @ 2:02 am
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June 19, 2008 @ 12:42 am
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love said,
July 1, 2008 @ 12:25 am
Hello Andy Swarbrick,
You said, “If you do so abhor advertising supported services then please explain why you use Yahoo Groups at all.”
I did not say that I object to all advertising supported services. As a Yahoo! Groups user, that would be nonsensical, as is your implication that I don’t realize that Yahoo! draws revenue from the Yahoo! Groups service.
I use Yahoo! services because I appreciate the value they provide to me in return for the value they receive. Grouply adds no value to my experience of Yahoo Groups, so I won’t share my Yahoo!-hosted data archives and activities with Grouply.
“Also form your words you should actually welcome Grouply since there is no advertising …”
That seems a deceptive statement. Grouply has stated that targeted advertising will be their means of raising revenue. The fact that it’s not there yet in beta means nothing.
“You can get some assurances in the TrustE license …”
No, I can’t. Maybe you can.
License? What “license?” TrustE is a standards certification service, not a licensing authority. I take no “assurance” from their certification process, not when involving a company that has no contractual commitment with me. I am in a contractual relationship with Yahoo!. I have no contract with Grouply, and they expect me to surrender my data to them without one!
“If you are serious about those kind of allegations …”
What “allegations?” Do you seriously pretend to think that Yahoo! can maintain the security and integrity of data archives stored on grouply.com servers without some sort of security arrangement between them?
“I would recommend you ask TrustE to verify for you that Grouply have taken suitable precautions.”
I’m not inclined to be receptive to any recommendations you make about anything, given your highly vocal advocacy for Grouply in so many venues.
Whatever so-called precautions TrustE certifies, they have not certified the thing I’m looking for from Grouply, which is to stay out of my groups.
“If you are not serious, then of course, don’t bother.”
Not nearly as clever a statement as it seems intended to be.
I am completely serious about my view of the Grouply service, and about my concern for the privacy and security of my groups’ data, and about my group members’ adherence to the TOS and our groups’ internal rules and policies. Your comments, however, are a little hard to take seriously, given your statements elsewhere (I can’t remember where at the moment, but your name and your Grouply advocacy activism is well known, including the blog hyperlinked to your name at the top of your comment here) saying that you’d like to get in on some share of Grouply’s business when shares become available (as if that’s ever going to happen).
Take the last word, pal. I won’t waste any more time debating tit-for-tat with an avowed advocate for a profiteer with hopes it will garner him access to a piece of the action some day.
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July 1, 2008 @ 12:26 am
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July 9, 2008 @ 5:40 am
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July 11, 2008 @ 1:11 am
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July 22, 2008 @ 5:07 am
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Hemlock said,
November 2, 2008 @ 8:15 pm
I trust that its alright for a business to advertise events or activities which are of general interest to the Group, especially if that business is also otherwise active on that Group.
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December 16, 2008 @ 2:58 pm
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AeroneNeoxera said,
December 18, 2008 @ 5:55 pm
Hi
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Jessy said,
January 27, 2009 @ 10:34 am